Thoughts And Advice Needed - 50MU Diary

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Sunday 19/5/40.
Twenty First job: Hereford Bomber (same type as Hampden only Dagger (Napier) engines).

13.5.40 Hereford I L6064 5 MU Aston Down COA

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Monday 20/5/40.
Twenty second job: Hawker Audax: Wooton Basset.

Suspect this one

13.5.40 Audax (India) K8315 9 FTS 0,5 m E of Beversbrook range, Calne, Wilts. DIG

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Twenty fourth job: Hawker Hart: Hullavington.
Half gang. Ordered to proceed to Hullavington to load above airframe and deliver and off load to 32nd Air Defence Squadron cadets, 2 Little John Street, Bristol. For instructional purposes.

This one would be a interesting one to ID

Anyone have a copy of the April 1975

Midlands Counties Aviation Society monograph "Cadet Corp Airframes" by Roy Bonser on the later Flypast listing on same subject

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Monday 15/7/40.
Twenty seventh job: Hawker Hind K6658: Shepton Mallet.

14.7.40 Hind I K6658 1 FTS Pylle, near Shepton Mallet, Somerset CFL

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These notes would be a very good basis for a very interesting book. Ever thought of it?

I'd need to know more about the workings of the MU's, the CRU, CRO's, MPRD and 43 Group. I am working on that!

I agree it would make a good book, combining that under-represented aspect of the war effort with the 'human interest' of Jim's diaries. I'll get on to it when I've got my 1930's aerodynamic design coffee table book out of the way!

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On this forum its all about Spitfires....

Tuesday 30/7/40.
Thirty first job: Spitfire N3287: Herford, Nr. Chudleigh, Devon

27.7.40 Spitfire I N3287 92 Sqn 2 m SE of Chudleigh, near Exeter AbN

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Quick work, Paul. What reference are you using?

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I'd need to know more about the workings of the MU's, the CRU, CRO's, MPRD and 43 Group. I am working on that!

I agree it would make a good book, combining that under-represented aspect of the war effort with the 'human interest' of Jim's diaries. I'll get on to it when I've got my 1930's aerodynamic design coffee table book out of the way!

I know that feeling. But from spending too much time at Kew, I know there would be good photographic coverage of many of these mishaps, let alone the usual RAFM, FAAM etc archives for other photos and log books etc.

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Sounds like you're volunteering?!

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Interested to know that photos of incidents do exist at Kew, though. Don't suppose you saw any Whirlwinds on moorland, did you?

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Interested to know that photos of incidents do exist at Kew, though. Don't suppose you saw any Whirlwinds on moorland, did you?

Not so far, but I'll keep an eye out!

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For reference

I am using the Air Britain UK Crash Log that they published in there magazine Aeromilitaria over a number of years

Paul

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Ah, I see. I imagine it's the same info that appeared in their published 'aircraft by serial' lists? Was amazed at the amount of work it must have taken to compile those - I am guessing from a combination of movement and accident cards?

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Tuesday 14/5/40.
Twentieth job: Oxford: Lew, Nr. Heyford.
Almost certainly this one
12.5.40 Oxford I P1964 2 FTS near Tew, Oxon. SIG

This one is actually Tew, near Heyford, killing cadet W I Childs
Dug this one back in the 80's

Jules

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Friday 10/5/40.
Eighteenth job: Hampden: Soldern, Nr. Fritwell.

5.5.40 Hampden I P1251 16 OTU Fritwell, Oxon. CTO

Found this site in 1984, within one mile of L6067 that also spun in at Soldern on 1/8/40

Jules

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And Job 133
Hampden at Slade Farm should be P1323 16/9/41

Dug this one in 83, crashed in stream, farmer was not happy when the digger pulled up several engine cylinders releasing engine oil flowing down his fresh stream !

Jules

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I know that feeling. But from spending too much time at Kew, I know there would be good photographic coverage of many of these mishaps, let alone the usual RAFM, FAAM etc archives for other photos and log books etc.

Hi
Sadly in the 80's i found many photos to be 'missing' photos, and files wih nothing inside them.
curiously when visiting a few years ago, these files seemed not to exist anymore ?
seems somehow i copied down lots of numbers wrongly in the 80's, even wrong titles .... hmmm ...

I only found the well now whirlwind post crash photos taken of 7103 ? or was it 7013? ( i just woke up ) in a hangar
I saw an old thread on 'raf commands' with another whirlwind but never managed to find out the reference.
good luck
cheers J

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Hi Jerry!

I don't know about Sabrejet's recent experience, and I have never actually been (currently spending quite a lot of cash on asking them to search on my behalf) but I am sure that the NA on-line catalogue is quietly changed all the time, as results do seem to appear or disappear from searches year-to-year.

Got your PM - we've pursued that one via a third party, but I will ask again myself at the location you gave.

More generally I have been trying to find trace of the mysterious 'Jack Dale', who would have been the recipient of all 50 MU gang's reports, according to Jim Wilson. He seems quite high up, a civilian head of 50MU and part of the triumvirate of Lord Nuffield, the Cowley Managing Director and himself - but he has disappeared off the face of history, it seems.

He did briefly reappear here, though, in 1943 - for 50 m.n. I suspect read 50 MU. As does the famous Mr. Leggett. (August 28th / Sept 1st) http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/29/a4476729.shtml

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Hi Jerry!

I don't know about Sabrejet's recent experience, and I have never actually been (currently spending quite a lot of cash on asking them to search on my behalf) but I am sure that the NA on-line catalogue is quietly changed all the time, as results do seem to appear or disappear from searches year-to-year.

I'd agree that some of the photos do seem to move about: some time ago I was looking at a squadron Operations Record Book and as I turned a page to reveal a loose photograph, one of the staff from the PRO (as it was then) walked up and quick as a flash removed it. He explained that loose photos should not be included in this type of material but I didn't think to ask how I might locate it should I require it in future. I can only imagine that it was catalogued as an RAF Museum artefact instead.

On another occasion while researching an RAF Sabre accident I came across a number of very graphic photographs of the hapless pilot, which I know should not have been public domain. I alerted the staff and these were also removed.

So I guess it very much depends on circumstances because in the intervening years I've looked at a lot of these files, and in the case of ORB's found a number of loose photos which TNA don't now seem bothered about. Likewise the AVIA, BT etc accident files often contain photos of aircraft accidents which are not relevant to the actual file. With luck over the years the system will sort itself out, but I do have a strong feeling that even now, uncovering the full extent of TNA holdings on one subject requires a great deal of luck.

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Ian and Jerry, while I have you both..

TNA currently show AVIA5/20/W1039 (Whrlwind L6845 Chepstow), 5/19/W955 (P6984 Sowton) and W1014 (P7008)

This is a different selection to previous search results (as above) - can I check that between you you have seen these, and there is no further information to be gleaned? I have not found any reference to P6984 in the usual places - is it worth me getting a copy?

Jerry, you have said elsewhere L6845 was dug in the 1980's and parts were on display - can you remember where/who? And are you sure that's not the Forest of Dean crash, which was definitely dug back then (Alan White et. al.), and small parts recovered?