Scampton Up For Sale

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Member for

12 years 11 months

Posts: 6,535

You seem strangely unaware that fantasy and sentimentality underpin the historic aviation preservation and conservation industry. This forum provides the evidence. I support these twin motivators; without them much would remain undone.

The British have a spectacular inability to prioritise. I learnt to fly at Biggin which should have been preserved as it was in WW2 as the sole focus for the remembrance of the BoB and Fighter Command. Instead we now have a site dedicated to what looks like tawdry commercialism. Tangmere was also a contender for special consideration in the remembrance role. What have we got ? An agricultural nursery and a museum !

Whether Scampton is worthy of some special preservation because of past history I know not. I believe that those in control think not. When the houses have been built or the solar array has been switched on, all that will be seen to remind anyone interested enough to look, will probably be a plaque made from a material unsuitable for the local light fingered to profit from.

Member for

18 years 2 months

Posts: 7,742

Having been on the distant periphery of some of the most recent proposals regarding the wider RAF Scampton site I suspect that the opportunity may have been lost with the proposed changes to the LCC heritage sites, that I provided the link to earlier; and also possibly the last set of changes at the RAFM.

There could be some solace, and perhaps even an example of a way forward by what has happened at RAF Bicester, with Bicester Heritage's example - only time will tell!

Member for

16 years 5 months

Posts: 5,999

Well said, John. Some people’s narrow minded and blinkered opinions on here just beggars belief.

It’s clear to anyone with their eyes wide open that RAF museum Hendon has simply had its day and needs to move on - quite literally in fact. The capital has moved on and is changing daily, leaving the museum as nothing more than a token gesture to what it should actually be representing - the people AND Aircraft of the Royal Airforce. Whereas if it was allowed to move out and become part again of what is missing - an actual airfield with the feel and atmosphere that only an airfield and an aviation museum together can create, then it would once again be better placed to help tell the story just like the RAFM Cosford does, which now has all the ingredients of a first class museum. So much so that as things stand I won’t be returning to Hendon, as I’d rather go back to Cosford despite it being much further away from where I live.

Now RAF Scampton - despite it being in Lincolnshire which some seem to have a rather snob like opinion as not being worthy, offers a unique and possibly one off opportunity for the RAFM to be situated on a site of national interest and importance with most of its needs and land requirements already in place, and be more centrally placed for ALL the country to enjoy and visit, and not just those who’s lifestyles or pensions make London so attractive to visit. After all there’s much more to the UK than friggin London you know!

Rob

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 16,832

Rob, remind us all why Scampton is a place of "national interest and importance" without mentioning one small bombing raid.

Moggy

Member for

19 years 3 months

Posts: 597

The first four Texans are Already at Valley, although they have yet to fly. As for numbers ordered well that's PFI contracts for you

Well I hope something comes out of the closing of Scampton, although as I grew up in Lincolnshire I wouldn't get your hopes up. 4 years is a long time, and I will most likely add rose tinted spectacles to the list of goods to sell alongside the armchairs.

TTFN

Member for

18 years 4 months

Posts: 2,810

Unless the airfield is still to be used as an airfield ,as at Duxford, the movements areas are of no use to aviation preservation ,just areas of tarmac, concrete and grass. Once away from the perimiter this changes with possible use depending on funding and existing condition of buildings. Indeed the sheer scale of former military airfields produces more issues which need thought regarding use against decay. Certainly keep at least one building as a focus eg tower and some space around it as at Dumfries and if very fortunate you can bring back parts such as Elvington. ....Lincolnshire and nearby Notts is already served by existing museums and I cannot see the point of another.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 16,832

Can I just say in case people think I am heartless, my choice would be just to fence off the runways and leave nature to itself to reclaim the traces of war. I find nothing more emotive than the old, decaying sites across E Anglia as the plants and animals slowly obliterate the works of man. I don't think the tower is WW2, so why bother with that (Happy to be contradicted)? Gibson's office and Nigger's grave preserved, the rest to housing, solar farm, whatever.

Moggy

Member for

16 years 7 months

Posts: 5,927

Wyvernfan said:

It’s clear to anyone with their eyes wide open that RAF museum Hendon has simply had its day and needs to move on - quite literally in fact. The capital has moved on and is changing daily, leaving the museum as nothing more than a token gesture to what it should actually be representing - the people AND Aircraft of the Royal Airforce. Whereas if it was allowed to move out and become part again of what is missing - an actual airfield with the feel and atmosphere that only an airfield and an aviation museum together can create, then it would once again be better placed to help tell the story just like the RAFM Cosford does, which now has all the ingredients of a first class museum. So much so that as things stand I won’t be returning to Hendon, as I’d rather go back to Cosford despite it being much further away from where I live.

And would that not just generate a 'save Hendon' campaign which, having regard to its history, might carry rather more substance? It's sad that, these days, it's not possible to preserve every little piece of the past. But that's the reality of life.

Member for

17 years

Posts: 1,037

Here’s a question to all those getting upset that “they” or “the government” or “the politicians” or “the ministry of defence” want to sell of an airfield that has long been in care and maintenance for a number of years.

As the future of the RAF moves away from flying aeroplanes in the first 100 years towards electronic warfare in the next 100 years, the need for airfields and the associated costs of continued maintenance become more unnecessary.

It is most likely that selling off airfield assets will justify to the balance books keeping the reds and BBMF funded, however it is well known that all are in the balance and none have a guaranteed future.

For those very upset at the sale of this airfield, what would you offer to be sacrificed to keep the books balanced?

FB

Member for

18 years 10 months

Posts: 963

Sounds like John Green and Wyvernfan have the passion, motivation and time to start this and lead any campaign, could you both let us know the details of how we can support you and help you in kicking this off, I’m sure you’ll have a lot of people right behind you.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 16,832

"I’m sure you’ll have a lot of people right behind you"

Up to the point where tens of thousands of pounds and an ongoing financial commitment are mentioned at which point they will all melt away.

Moggy

Member for

21 years

Posts: 2,108

The British have a spectacular inability to prioritise. I learnt to fly at Biggin which should have been preserved as it was in WW2 as the sole focus for the remembrance of the BoB and Fighter Command. Instead we now have a site dedicated to what looks like tawdry commercialism. Tangmere was also a contender for special consideration in the remembrance role.

Biggin was changed too much for jet ops post-war, as was Tangmere.
The one that should/could have been preserved as that representative of the BoB was RAF Hawkinge, which retained it grass runways, on top of it's pivotal place as closest base to the channel. At least we have some brief evocative film of it in the film sequences of the film.

Member for

9 years 6 months

Posts: 1,613

Meddle

Do you seriously think they would stick The Reds into Coningsby given its current use? I assume you have some clue as to its importance nationally.

I don't understand why the Typhoons and Reds can't live in peaceful coexistence at Coningsby, but that is perhaps indicative of how little I care about modern military aviation. I gather that Typhoons take off from there once in a while to go menace a Tu-95 stooging up the North Sea, or to chase one of Cobham's Falcons. Am I close? :D

Perhaps some folk best research the subject before commiting (sic! :applause:) to the keyboard

Because it should be the top priority of everybody to study the frequency of public transport in Lincolnshire, right enough!

...fantasy and sentimentality underpin the historic aviation preservation and conservation industry...

A problem that will neatly solve itself in the next 10 - 20 years. :applause:

...Gibson's office and Nigger's grave preserved...

There it is! I was looking forward to at least three pages of titter titter, and you go and blow the bloody doors off. Jigger, Tigger, Ligger... what will they call the dog in the remake?!?!

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 674

Many questions are asked and few answers seem to be genuinely practical. This one might also be a pipe dream and depends on what is exactly been "sold off" by the MOD.
It has already been mentioned the existing housing stock is privately owned. But...#

Hawker Hunter Aviation (HHA) is a sitting tenant who presumably have been happily making a profit out of their operation from RAF Scampton for many years. With the right business plan and future contracts in place what is there to say that the airfield operations, hangars, maintenance and storage activities can remain, indeed could they be expanded ? It has been said that the hangars, taxiways and runway are is poor condition, but that has not so far restricted their use. Buildings can be surveyed and those not required or past their safe use can be demolished, others given preservation status can be refurbished and used, for either aviation operations or (limited) heritage use. The active airfield site should be large enough to allow new buildings for non aviation / storage / industrial use, whilst still allowing a profit to be made from residential or retail development.
I really do not know any facts or figures but given the many pressures on general aviation could Scampton and its location become a new centre for private flying or flying schools ?
What ever happens I believe retaining active flying operations from Scampton to be the best way of retaining its heritage and importance as part of this countries social history.

Member for

12 years 11 months

Posts: 6,535

AK

I have the motivation and energy and patience for most things but, not for anything that is currently under discussion. I made what I thought was a useful suggestion that might work provided that the figures and statistics are feasible. Think of a more complicated version of 'crowdfunding' and you'll get the point. I have no axe to grind with respect to Scampton.

Member for

12 years 11 months

Posts: 6,535

Moggy

Precisely so.

Member for

19 years 3 months

Posts: 597

Indeed Meddle they do occasionally do intercept practices with Cobham Falcon 20s, oh and every now and then intercept the odd Russian who does probe UK aerospace.

As well as Random Airliners and other types that loose/forget to communicate with ATC etc.

As for the Reds sharing home with Typhoons, my point is No room at the inn old chap as I pointed out the other day.

And as for improvement change to Lincs Public transport, you have a better chance of being King (one reason why I quit the place in 1991....

More jobs in London ;-)

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 3,415

If there was anything wrong with the runways or taxi paths they would not have the Red Arrows using them, or be housing an airshow there.

To back up my point about there being something big at Scampton here is what happened when they moved before; "23 C130 Hercules aircraft were required to airlift the Unit’s equipment and 166 personnel"

Member for

16 years 5 months

Posts: 5,999

Thank you for your endorsement, Agent K, but time is not something I have in abundance. Instead of which I’ve drafted an email to the RAF museum stating my points and my argument for a potential move of the RAF museum to Scampton from Hendon. I will be interested in their reply.

As for those questioning why the airfield is as I suggested of national interest and importance at a time when our airfields including those of the Cold War period are disappearing fast, then please feel free to research the subject yourself and draw your own conclusions. Personally I’m comfortable with my original statement even if you are not!

Rob

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 16,832

Rob, It's not that I am not comfortable with it, I just don't understand it. Why Scampton and not Linton on Ouse?

Moggy