By: Lion Rock
- 26th July 2018 at 09:21Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If one looks at a road map from Lincoln going north along the A15 I think it is, this is one of the original Roman Roads. Being a Roman Road it is dead straight but then it kinks before resuming its course, the reason for the kink being to accommodate the extension of the Scampton runway during the war. I seem to recall the MOD went down the route of selling Scampton around twenty years ago and the process suddenly came to a grinding halt when apparently someone looked at the title deeds whereupon it was found a clause stating if the MOD ever sold the site they wee responsible for the reinstatement of the original path of the A15, the cost then estimated to be around £6m. hence the reason things came to a rapid halt, has anyone else heard about this and if it is true are the present generation of bean counters aware of this clause!!!!!
By: David_Kavangh
- 26th July 2018 at 12:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The “kink” in the A15 was actually built when the runway was extended for the V Bombers in 1950s, rather than during the war. It would certainly make sense if the council took the opportunity to do something with that part of the A15, it incredibly dangerous. (Plus a certain dog got killed on it in 1943...)
By: stuart gowans
- 26th July 2018 at 18:05Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
. "Perhaps some folk best research the subject before commiting to the keyboard"
Actually I was misquoting a line from a particular film, "You could tell them I designed it, do you think that might help"? and as you suggest I have no special knowledge of public transport, (or interest)
By: Binbrook 01
- 26th July 2018 at 19:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't like public transport much either. If in the actual eventuality someone does save Scampton and put a museum on it.
Just look out for the area around the new bus station and the railway staion nearby and find the poor confused soles trying to make head & tail of it all...
By: stuart gowans
- 26th July 2018 at 19:37Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As a former regular at Hendon, the only attraction was the aircraft, I hated that part of London (although as I hate London with a passion, and for a variety of reasons, that's not saying a lot) and as an outsider I found the congestion charge confusing, and similarly the LEZ ( don't that just sum up London)
I have said for a number of years in my humble (but none the less considered) opinion that the RAFM should move outside of the M25; parking at Hendon is extremely limited, and the train station quite a hike for the less than dedicated; Scampton is outside the M25, is available, and probably has a greater significance to the RAF than Hendon, everyone has heard of the Dambusters, and almost no one has heard of Claude Grahame White.
Whilst links to the site at Scampton maybe poor now, they were once at Duxford, and they have a parknride now (apparently)
By: The Bump
- 26th July 2018 at 19:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well said Brian.
The notion of moving the RAFM out of Hendon to Scampton is without doubt the dumbest thing i’ve read in ages.
If Scampton has to go i’d rather it went the way of Greenham Common back to common land.
The biggest tragedy would be a housing estate.
By: SADSACK
- 26th July 2018 at 22:53Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
We all know there is a non flying "thing" based at Scampton, and that will not be going anywhere. A former station commander told me its physically impossible to remove it.
Chances are a small compound will be retained around it.
The Red Arrows need air space to train, pretty much a base to themselves.
it would be a great shame to see the work on the museum, and Gibbos office go to waste.
By: Agent K
- 27th July 2018 at 09:15Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Aside from the "I did 2 weeks on an ATC camp in 1958 therefore it must be saved" statements I'm seeing, there's some other aspects that haven't really been covered yet I think are important.
I am too am saddened by the proposal for Scampton and LoO closure as I am with any RAF (or indeed military base closure). They are steeped in history and are the castles of the 20th century. No more should we tear down Leeds castle, York Castle, etc. etc. than we should the RAF bases. I do however see that if there are no units to place at them then closure is the most attractive option to the budget holders.
The withdrawal of the military from significant parts of the country cannot be doing any good in terms of garnering support for and visibility of the military or indeed to boost recruitment. Look at where the RAF is these days, and where it has retreated to, it has no presence in the North West, minimal in the South East, South and South West, and minimal in the Midlands. There are significant parts of the country with no day to day contact with the RAF any more. Back in the day the RAF could provide handfuls of aircraft of all types for airshows and displays and engage with the public around the country, yet now that can't even provide a Chinook for a full season and have had to withdraw from displays this year for operational reasons. They seem permanently at their full (reduced) capacity. Probably a contentious issue, but conversely, as the RAF retreats into itself, they seem able to provide decent line ups for internal families days (and great that they show their support to the families, but the (im)balance is quite noticeable) - I do understand the rules and regulations and policing and such of full air displays vs. internal events - this is just an observation.
Importantly, also, I think, the bases are part of an inexorably linked to the core and heart and history of the RAF. They are it's DNA. They embedded the ethos and pride of the RAF. Who hasn't heard of 617 and the Dambusters? of Bomber Command of which LoO was but a part, indeed of Whittle and Henlow. I think with every closure bit by bit the RAF is losing part of it's heart, and losing what makes it unique and what gives it's strength.
By: John Green
- 27th July 2018 at 11:33Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Most would agree with you but, what do you intend to do about it ? What is your plan of action ? Of all the expressed opinions and observations, just one has come up with a plan that requires commitment and action and might just work. It requires actions and not just pious hopes.
By: Agent K
- 27th July 2018 at 11:54Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nothing, you? (or is this yet another pointless " what about you" post whilst offering nothing yourself) as per my statement "I do however see that if there are no units to place at them then closure is the most attractive option to the budget holders." this is the reality and I fully accept that.
At best one can hope for some preservation of historic/significant parts of the site, and a museum to record and illustrate that history.... on which... I am very actively involved as a volunteer in one of the UK's most significant aircraft and military history museums and thus without any more spare and additional time to commit to something else I will leave that mantle to the many others who, perhaps, have more spare time and strength of opinion that I hope drives them to help and volunteer at their championed aviation projects.
By: stuart gowans
- 27th July 2018 at 12:00Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm pretty sure I've seen signs on the M11 saying use the parknride for Duxford, otherwise I don't know where the idea might have come from; the whole point of parkanrides is that they aren't anywhere near where you want to go...…...
By: ChrisD
- 27th July 2018 at 13:49Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Congestion charge doesn't stretch as far as Hendon, although if Sadiq Kahn has his way it probably soon will! And as far as Duxford is concerned I'm pretty sure the Park and Ride you refer to only operates when the Airshows are on.
By: Moggy C
- 27th July 2018 at 14:52Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Scampton isn't particularly special. Its reputation is based on one small and fairly ineffective raid which is commemorated all over the place already. Woodhall Spa memorial, Petwood House, Hendon etc.
Fantasy plans of "clubbing together to buy it" show a worryingly loose grasp on reality.
By: John Green
- 27th July 2018 at 15:13Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ok, what's your plan ? Like many of the others, big on opinion; small on action.
The one I suggested isn't new it's been done before. Think of a big raffle for a big prize. Except there are no obvious losers every investor gets a slice.
By: SADSACK
- 27th July 2018 at 15:44Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Northeast saw the potential in Beamish open air museum, 45 or so years later it employs hundreds of local people and benefits the local economy.
Duxford, well need I say anything?
All you ever get here in Lincolnshire is "there's no money" - we miss put time and time again. No money to sort the pier, no effort to stop museum closures, and we have no airport.
Logic would see Scampton used the same way that Saint Athan is training engineers, and doing all kinds of things. Sadly Lincolnshire does not have that vision.
Nostalgia is not the answer. I cannot abide waste. Why flatten a really good airfield with real potential, when it can be used?
Posts: 318
By: Lion Rock - 26th July 2018 at 09:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If one looks at a road map from Lincoln going north along the A15 I think it is, this is one of the original Roman Roads. Being a Roman Road it is dead straight but then it kinks before resuming its course, the reason for the kink being to accommodate the extension of the Scampton runway during the war. I seem to recall the MOD went down the route of selling Scampton around twenty years ago and the process suddenly came to a grinding halt when apparently someone looked at the title deeds whereupon it was found a clause stating if the MOD ever sold the site they wee responsible for the reinstatement of the original path of the A15, the cost then estimated to be around £6m. hence the reason things came to a rapid halt, has anyone else heard about this and if it is true are the present generation of bean counters aware of this clause!!!!!
Posts: 985
By: David_Kavangh - 26th July 2018 at 12:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The “kink” in the A15 was actually built when the runway was extended for the V Bombers in 1950s, rather than during the war. It would certainly make sense if the council took the opportunity to do something with that part of the A15, it incredibly dangerous. (Plus a certain dog got killed on it in 1943...)
Posts: 2,025
By: stuart gowans - 26th July 2018 at 18:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
. "Perhaps some folk best research the subject before commiting to the keyboard"
Actually I was misquoting a line from a particular film, "You could tell them I designed it, do you think that might help"? and as you suggest I have no special knowledge of public transport, (or interest)
Posts: 597
By: Binbrook 01 - 26th July 2018 at 19:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't like public transport much either. If in the actual eventuality someone does save Scampton and put a museum on it.
Just look out for the area around the new bus station and the railway staion nearby and find the poor confused soles trying to make head & tail of it all...
Posts: 2,025
By: stuart gowans - 26th July 2018 at 19:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As a former regular at Hendon, the only attraction was the aircraft, I hated that part of London (although as I hate London with a passion, and for a variety of reasons, that's not saying a lot) and as an outsider I found the congestion charge confusing, and similarly the LEZ ( don't that just sum up London)
I have said for a number of years in my humble (but none the less considered) opinion that the RAFM should move outside of the M25; parking at Hendon is extremely limited, and the train station quite a hike for the less than dedicated; Scampton is outside the M25, is available, and probably has a greater significance to the RAF than Hendon, everyone has heard of the Dambusters, and almost no one has heard of Claude Grahame White.
Whilst links to the site at Scampton maybe poor now, they were once at Duxford, and they have a parknride now (apparently)
Posts: 814
By: The Bump - 26th July 2018 at 19:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well said Brian.
The notion of moving the RAFM out of Hendon to Scampton is without doubt the dumbest thing i’ve read in ages.
If Scampton has to go i’d rather it went the way of Greenham Common back to common land.
The biggest tragedy would be a housing estate.
Posts: 2,656
By: Pen Pusher - 26th July 2018 at 20:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No they don't. There is a bus that runs every two hours on a Sunday.
Brian
Posts: 7,027
By: trumper - 26th July 2018 at 20:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Whittlesford station is about 1 mile away from Duxford ,The park and ride goes to the outskirts of Cambridge ,Duxford is a 10 min drive.
Posts: 3,415
By: SADSACK - 26th July 2018 at 22:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
We all know there is a non flying "thing" based at Scampton, and that will not be going anywhere. A former station commander told me its physically impossible to remove it.
Chances are a small compound will be retained around it.
The Red Arrows need air space to train, pretty much a base to themselves.
it would be a great shame to see the work on the museum, and Gibbos office go to waste.
Posts: 963
By: Agent K - 27th July 2018 at 09:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Aside from the "I did 2 weeks on an ATC camp in 1958 therefore it must be saved" statements I'm seeing, there's some other aspects that haven't really been covered yet I think are important.
I am too am saddened by the proposal for Scampton and LoO closure as I am with any RAF (or indeed military base closure). They are steeped in history and are the castles of the 20th century. No more should we tear down Leeds castle, York Castle, etc. etc. than we should the RAF bases. I do however see that if there are no units to place at them then closure is the most attractive option to the budget holders.
The withdrawal of the military from significant parts of the country cannot be doing any good in terms of garnering support for and visibility of the military or indeed to boost recruitment. Look at where the RAF is these days, and where it has retreated to, it has no presence in the North West, minimal in the South East, South and South West, and minimal in the Midlands. There are significant parts of the country with no day to day contact with the RAF any more. Back in the day the RAF could provide handfuls of aircraft of all types for airshows and displays and engage with the public around the country, yet now that can't even provide a Chinook for a full season and have had to withdraw from displays this year for operational reasons. They seem permanently at their full (reduced) capacity. Probably a contentious issue, but conversely, as the RAF retreats into itself, they seem able to provide decent line ups for internal families days (and great that they show their support to the families, but the (im)balance is quite noticeable) - I do understand the rules and regulations and policing and such of full air displays vs. internal events - this is just an observation.
Importantly, also, I think, the bases are part of an inexorably linked to the core and heart and history of the RAF. They are it's DNA. They embedded the ethos and pride of the RAF. Who hasn't heard of 617 and the Dambusters? of Bomber Command of which LoO was but a part, indeed of Whittle and Henlow. I think with every closure bit by bit the RAF is losing part of it's heart, and losing what makes it unique and what gives it's strength.
My thoughts......
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 27th July 2018 at 11:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Most would agree with you but, what do you intend to do about it ? What is your plan of action ? Of all the expressed opinions and observations, just one has come up with a plan that requires commitment and action and might just work. It requires actions and not just pious hopes.
Posts: 963
By: Agent K - 27th July 2018 at 11:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nothing, you? (or is this yet another pointless " what about you" post whilst offering nothing yourself) as per my statement "I do however see that if there are no units to place at them then closure is the most attractive option to the budget holders." this is the reality and I fully accept that.
At best one can hope for some preservation of historic/significant parts of the site, and a museum to record and illustrate that history.... on which... I am very actively involved as a volunteer in one of the UK's most significant aircraft and military history museums and thus without any more spare and additional time to commit to something else I will leave that mantle to the many others who, perhaps, have more spare time and strength of opinion that I hope drives them to help and volunteer at their championed aviation projects.
Posts: 2,025
By: stuart gowans - 27th July 2018 at 12:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm pretty sure I've seen signs on the M11 saying use the parknride for Duxford, otherwise I don't know where the idea might have come from; the whole point of parkanrides is that they aren't anywhere near where you want to go...…...
Posts: 963
By: Agent K - 27th July 2018 at 12:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the permanent M11 ones/signs are for Cambridge city, any temporary ones would only be for the airshows.
Posts: 2,656
By: Pen Pusher - 27th July 2018 at 12:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That's just for air shows when a free shuttle bus runs.
Brian
Posts: 68
By: ChrisD - 27th July 2018 at 13:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Congestion charge doesn't stretch as far as Hendon, although if Sadiq Kahn has his way it probably soon will! And as far as Duxford is concerned I'm pretty sure the Park and Ride you refer to only operates when the Airshows are on.
Posts: 16,832
By: Moggy C - 27th July 2018 at 14:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Scampton isn't particularly special. Its reputation is based on one small and fairly ineffective raid which is commemorated all over the place already. Woodhall Spa memorial, Petwood House, Hendon etc.
Fantasy plans of "clubbing together to buy it" show a worryingly loose grasp on reality.
Red Arrows? Cranwell is my bet.
Moggy
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 27th July 2018 at 15:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ok, what's your plan ? Like many of the others, big on opinion; small on action.
The one I suggested isn't new it's been done before. Think of a big raffle for a big prize. Except there are no obvious losers every investor gets a slice.
Posts: 16,832
By: Moggy C - 27th July 2018 at 15:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sell it off to the highest bidder with a covenant around Nigger's grave and Gibson's office. Why complicate things?
Moggy
Posts: 3,415
By: SADSACK - 27th July 2018 at 15:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Northeast saw the potential in Beamish open air museum, 45 or so years later it employs hundreds of local people and benefits the local economy.
Duxford, well need I say anything?
All you ever get here in Lincolnshire is "there's no money" - we miss put time and time again. No money to sort the pier, no effort to stop museum closures, and we have no airport.
Logic would see Scampton used the same way that Saint Athan is training engineers, and doing all kinds of things. Sadly Lincolnshire does not have that vision.
Nostalgia is not the answer. I cannot abide waste. Why flatten a really good airfield with real potential, when it can be used?