Duxford to ban aerobatics???

Profile picture for user Jasonp51d

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According to yesterday's Cambridge Evening News Ted Inman of Duxford has approached the CAA about banning or limiting aerobatics at future Duxford shows. Has anyone else heard anything along these lines?? Damn shame if it does happen. Typical of the non-aeroplane people who run the IWM. VBR Jason
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Profile picture for user EN830

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Re: Duxford to ban aerobatics???
Originally posted by Jasonp51d Damn shame if it does happen. Typical of the non-aeroplane people who run the IWM. VBR Jason
Interference by time expired civil servants working out the last days of their contract before retirement.
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As has been said many times on this forum Aerobatics are a non-essential part of a 'warbird' display, and if it enhances safety then so be it. Whats more Duxford has to be seen as doing something to appease public opinion stirred up by misinformed newspapers ,TV reporters and clapped out Australian dykes who happen to live near by and get paid by a liberal broadsheet to write liberal columns.
Profile picture for user Chipmunk Carol

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Just think about how many of the incidents/accidents around Duxford actually involved aerobatics. Only a fraction. So banning aeros would not achieve much. Ted needs to be seen to be doing something. He's in a really tight spot and I don't think knocking him will achieve anything.
Profile picture for user Learning_Slowly

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If this is true it is perhaps the most stupid idea ever heard of. Best we stop those F1 cars going to fast round the track just in case they crash!! As has been stated the 109 bounced over the motorway on approach to land, the Havard came down on take off, the Spit on take off and the L39 on circuits. It is widely accepted that the time when you are most likely to come into contact with eth ground prematurely is when in the circuit. Someone needs to have a good long think about this. As for the civil servants,they seem far to preoccupied with people through the gate. They are not helping at all. I have got to the point where I feel like chucking in the work at Duxford and walking away. What a mess it has become. Rant over. No teddies I assure you!
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May be as they are obviously the most dangerous parts, take offs and landings should be band !!!!
Profile picture for user Learning_Slowly

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What a good idea I will suggest it, we could have new tanker probes installed for air to air refuelling and fly in hangars.

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Shouldn't we wait until IWM officially publish what they are going to do and give Ted Inman a chance to give his say. I accept that they are not nessacerily 'aeroplane people' (Lack of IWM Lancaster on flightline at May Airshow) any way i digress... i personally think the muppets at Look East and the BBC need a good talking too! Lets just wait and see! Del:)

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The point about Ted Inman made by jasonp51d at the start of this thread is one which I raised on 31st July "But it also tries to makes the management of the IWM look good, they are only Civil Servants and do not care about aviation preservation" Before the abuse starts I know that there are many good people at Duxford who work hard and care strongely. But if the man at the top is only looking to the media and his sponors for the way forward, then aviation will always come off second best. DOUGHNUT ps I have had dealings with Mr Inman regarding the SR-71 so I know he is not to be trusted or relied upon.
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Originally posted by Learning_Slowly .... the Spit on take off ....
Sorry, I haven't been concentrating. What Spit? Moggy

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Todays cambridge evening news lists all the accidents involving aircraft based at duxford that had crashes,abroard, near or on the airfield,with the headline ARE OUR SKIES SAFE?. Banning aerobatics or changing approaches or what ever else anybody comes up with is not going to lesson the chances of these incidents happening,simply due to the fact of "human error". Can anybody come up with a solution that will keep the likes of the bbc,cambridge evening news and certain locals quite,the iwm are in a corner and something has to be done now!
Profile picture for user Moggy C

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Originally posted by DROPTANK Can anybody come up with a solution that will keep the likes of the bbc,cambridge evening news and certain locals quiet
A major terrorist incident should do it. Preferably involving the Look East producer who elected to reshow Hoof's death, having Semtex stuffed down his underpants and being marched into the local council offices before being detonated by remote control? Moggy
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Sorry Moggy .. Spit on landing, I will get the reg wrong so I won't try, but it was the silver and red one from Historic with Karel Boss was flying, quite a while back. I can't comment about Mr Inman but I only ever see him around when there are cameras or a special guest. I am a local to Duxofrd an dyou don't see me complaining and it was refreshing on Q103 (local radio station) this morning to hear a local talking out about how he appreciated what safeguards Duxford takes. Duxford is so political now, and you are right there are some people that love the place and work very hard for aviation preservation. Shame they are not running it!!! I say time for the revolution...
Profile picture for user Chipmunk Carol

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One small (perhaps) thing that would help is if pilots observed the official airfield guides and (I'm not quoting this word perfect) avoided overflying Duxford villiage. Everytime an aircraft of any type flies over the houses, it arouses the hatred in the aerophobes. If they just made the effort to turn base short of the villiage, or to fly all the way around the outside, it would help. There are too many pilots who do not check on the noise abatement rules before arriving and just bumble about. It's not difficult to get it right. Learning_Slowly: Silver Spitfire is TD248.

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TD248 had a landing accident on 11/05/01 where the pilot flared rather too high - is this what you're thinking of?
Profile picture for user Learning_Slowly

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Silver Spitfire is TD248 yep thats the one, never was one on registrations. Thanks for that. As for flying round the village, I know that if I even thought about flying over Duxford then I would get shot. We have a big notice on our briefing board warning of this and I know the main man in the tower would advise against it. The circuit is turning before Rectory Road and past Ciba (or whatever they are calling it now) or straight onto finals over the BP garage and Volvo. I must admit there are a few 'my balls are to big for this plane' boys that do over fly but trouble is they cant flare their planes with bulges that big. You are right though, it must be made very apparent in both Duxford briefings and the VFR guides what the procedure is. Best place to be with an engine failure is over Duxford, you would glide clear!!
Profile picture for user Merlin3945

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Originally posted by EN830 May be as they are obviously the most dangerous parts, take offs and landings should be band !!!!
I thiink that the press are already working hard on this one as well as quite a few other associated parties.

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I think its the right decision, although I appear to be in a minority! Its show the airfield / IWM are trying to do somehthing, which is probably more important, due to the ignorant press / readers. It LOOKS like they are trying, so it _may_ appease the anti aircraft lot. Secondly, since seeing the RR Spit crash at Woodford during a loop & the P38 in 1997, I have wanted warbirds & crews to stop looping & any manuaveurs with signifcant downward momentum. I know they are not _really_ aeros, but they are precious & so are the crew. I am happy to attend a show & see wing overs & fast passes from these (often) unique, and leave the aeros to the Pitts, Su28 etc.

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I think guys a 'ban' as such will happen soon anyway. If you examine the number of warbirds lost in the last ten years which have involved aerobatic manouvers and then compare that to the rate at which insurance cover has increased and you will see that they will become impossible to insure . If aerobatic's for warbirds were banned at air displays I don't think it would make a dramatic effect on the numbers of people visiting events. Personally I would travel to see a Spitfire or Hurricane fly regardless of the type of flying it did. Often I think the non-aerobatic displays of Spitfires are far more moving and encompass the spirit of the machine perfectly.

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Unfortunately with the best will in the world cannot make life totally safe. However the press, and television in particular, seems to think that you can and you do it by banning lawful activities or scare the mindless proles so that they all sit safely at home mindlessly watching the media and not go out. Because you cannot make life totally safe does not mean that you cannot take sensible and reasonably practicable measures to control the risks you are dealing with. I believe that the CAA and everyone at Duxford does that. If you knowingly fly a plane in a dangerous condition or do something stupid then you deserve the book thrown at you, if not the media should be told where to go. I say move the motorway! PS Careful what you say about civil servants, some of us know how to read.
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Firstly we are not sure what the changes at Duxford and the implications to other shows are going to be. Secondly, the ban Aerobatics thing does not wash with me. For a start do you ban aerobatics for all types or just the Historics? If you say all, then you are saying goodbye to a number of major acts. I mean the Red Arrows would be grounded for one! ;) If you say just the Historics, then you have to ask why? Are they at more risk than more modern, less rare types? Are the pilots not up to displaying such aircraft in this manner? If you look at the accidents that have happened at Duxford over the last few years, they did involve Historics, but only two of them were doing aerobatic manoeuvres at the time. :confused: People seem to forget that the much missed BAe Mosquito never did an aerobatic display. It had very strict limits on both speed and airframe limits (250kts max, +2 g & no intentional negative) so that kind of made an aerobatic display a no-go yet it still crashed? The Blehneim was not doing aerobatics when it had an accident yesterday. The CAF Heinkel, TFC's first Kingcobra, PL983 and TE566 were not doing aerobatics, yet they still crashed. Flying by it's very nature has risks and given the way the aircraft listed above were lost, I fail to see how banning aerobatic displays will cut down on the number of accidents involving this type of aircraft. I suppose the real question we should be asking is "Should we fly them at all”? But that’s another story! Cheers Paul