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By: - 19th December 2004 at 05:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi Dave,
I have a small book (48 pages) about NX665, that the MOTAT was selling a few years ago (maybe they still have some), and that was sent to me by my friend Phil Furner, who is a volunteer in this museum.
Anyway, in this book, there is no mention about the spar being cut, and there are pictures of the plane dismantled on both occasion (1964 and 1978), and each time the outer wings seem to have been removed the right way.
The book also gives some details about the planes NX665 is painted after:
PB457/SR°V was lost in the night of 23/24 February 1945 on a mission to the industrial area of Pforzheim, on a low level mission of 386 planes, of which 10 were lost. (The 1945 volume of Bomber Command losses says that the SR°V lost that night was serialed PA237....)
ND752/AA°O was lost on the night of 20/21 July 1944, on a mission against the oil refinery of Homburg, in the Ruhr. The plane crashed in Holland after it was hit by flak on the way home. The pilot and a gunner were killed. The rest of the crew survived.
I hope someone will have more details.
HTH,
Laurent
By: - 19th December 2004 at 06:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Laurent, that's really interesting. I have heard many times from various people that the spar was cut, so this is a surpise to hear it was properly dismantled. The thing is that the spar was time expired anyway, hence the reason it was retired I believe, so either way if someone decided to fly the Lanc it would need a new one.
I assume that o the first ocassion when it was dismatled it was done by the RNZAF? It was flown into RNZAF Whenuapai so I assume they did it.
Thanks again.
By: - 19th December 2004 at 06:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't think it was retired because the spar was time expired. The reason is that the last Lancs were just getting old, and that newer Neptunes had been bought, so the french navy just said goodbye to them, and fortunately, decided not to scrap those (well, they had scrapped so many before....).
The book confirms that the RNZAF did the job on the first occasion.
By: - 19th December 2004 at 08:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Cheers. I think it was a wonderful gesture for the French Government to donate the aircraft to the people of New Zealand. Otherwise we'd not have one at all, and so many Kiwis served in them during the war, so it's a brilliant historical aircraft to have.
I didn't mean that the spar was the only reason for retirement, sorry I should have been more clear on that. I have read that the spar was very near the end of its life though.
I wonder if it is simply an urban myth about the spar being cut. Perhaps it began when people saw it without wings in transit and assumptions were made.
By: - 19th December 2004 at 15:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Time to set the record straight on this one...
Dave.
The spar has not been cut, never was nor will it ever be. The lancaster is easy to transport by road as the outer wings are unbolted outboard of the inner engines. There is no reason to cut the spar unless mounting it on a pedestal like FM104,FM212.FM136 in Canada. Even then only the spar web was cut out as well as the centre section floor.
I spoke with Phil and he wrote the following.
Our spar is untouched except for a hairline fracture which will obviously prevent it from flying!
Hope this sets the record straight on this one... ;)
By: - 19th December 2004 at 17:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Poser
I found the enclosed shot in the Geneal Motors library in Luton and this is perhaps a perfect time to air it.
It is clearly a Bedford truck event, posed to perfection.
Mark
By: - 19th December 2004 at 21:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nice WDM20's......that takes me back :D
By: - 19th December 2004 at 22:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Peter for that. That is really interesting, because as I said, it must be one of those urban myths that gets perpetuated over the years. I shall take great pleasure in telling Dad this. And everyone else I meet in future who mentions the myth.
Nice photo Mark. Have them deliver the cockpit to my garage, and park the rest of the Lanc round the back.
By: - 19th December 2004 at 23:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm just glad that they have the poor old girl finally under cover after all the years in the weather.
It was a sad sight for many years and there was talk of the Lanc breaking it's back if it was left much longer (don't know how true that was).
TNZ
Posts: 5,576
By: Dave Homewood - 19th December 2004 at 04:53
First Question:
It is well known that the Lancaster at Motat (The Museum of Transport and Technology) in Auckland, NZ, has had it's spar cut. This was done when it was transported by road.
But I was talking with Dad the other day about when we saw them doing an engine run during the 1970's. He said that when they shifted the Lanc from the main museum up to Sir Keith Park Memorial Airfield on Meola Road, that was when the spar was cut.
That would have been it's second road trip, as it landed at Whenuapai and was transported down the motorway to Western Springs where it resides.
He said that's the reason why the engine runs stopped because the spar had been cut and the stress would be too much for it.
Is that right? Was the aircraft transported the first time when it arrived in NZ with the wings fully intact? Or were they removed without the spar cut? Does anyone have photos of it being transported by road? I'm sure I saw a photo of it on the road somewhere years ago in a book but I don't know where and I don't remember what state the wings were it.
Second Question:
The Lanc wears two representative colour schemes. One side it is PB457 SR-V of No.101 Squadron and the other side it is ND752 AA-O of No. 75 (NZ) Squadron. Both the real aircraft were lost on ops and were crewed by RNZAF men. I wondered if anyone here has details of those two planes, and where and when they were lost, etc.
Third Question:
Dad reckoned that he thought Sir Keith Park Memorial Airfield where the aircraft part of Motat is situated was previously an actual airstrip. I have not heard this before and doubt it. Does anyone know for sure? I thought it had been a refuse tip or something like that from memory.