"Angels One Five" details

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I am watching Angesl One Five. Excellent film for its time, I am just narked that I missed taping the first half hour. Doh.

A few points I wonder about. I've looked back through previous threads about the film on this site and there's a few questions unanswered:

One is, does anyone know why they decided to use very poor models of the German aircraft rather tyhan splicing in real footage - which was the usual thing at the time since eveything was in black and white. The model scenes are ok for those days but do detract from the film, especially when the Heinkels look all mishapen.

There was some fairly good and interesting use of the models though when you see the Ju88 fly very low over the airfield during the big attack. Also later in the film when Septic is shot and you see two real Hurricances peel off and the model Me109 behind them. Interesting layering technique. If the model wasn['t all jerky like on a string it'd have looked very real.

Another question is the Bf110. I have read here it was real, and that it may have been destroyed after the filming. Has anyone got a definite account of its demise? Where, when and most of all WHY?

In an old thread Geoff "Von Perthes" mentioned the Bf110 was one of four brought to the UK for museum display (I guess as a war prize). He says two still existed, one was lost and one destroyed. I want to know, how was one 'lost'? Was it flown and crashed? Or simply misplaced (in the dark at Hendon perhaps? ;) ). And the two that still existed? I know of one complete at Hendon, and bits of Hess's one at IWM Lambeth - but surely the latter wasn't brought to the UK for museum display, it is the wreck from the 1941 crash! So, is there another one somewhere? I am sure the Hendon one was meant to be the only complete example known before the three came out of Russia that went to the AFC at Wanaka, and then onto Germany. Is that correct?

Also on two old threads I note Mark12 was asking for identity of a Spitfire seen in the film. It is clearly seen in the practice flight scramble scene where Harvards and Hurricanes are taking off. However, Merk, did you realise later in the film two are seen side by side?After Septic is shot and the Ops Room chaps are listening to him coming down, very weak and struggling with the plane, we see Mrs Clinton walking home to switch her light on. She meets the other girl at an intersection on her bike. In the background are two Spitfires (I am sure of it).

I've read on the net this was filmed at RAF Kenley and RAF Uxbridge. Were Spits still based in these places? I read they used the real Ops Room at Kenley too.

Would Harvards have been in bare metal/aluminium colours in the RAF in 1940? Not a biggy that, I can imagine them as yellow if it's wrong. And in reference to a recent Mosquito Squadron thread thrashing the fact that a Mk 19 Anson is seen, there's one seen in this film too - set even earlier.

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Also on two old threads I note Mark12 was asking for identity of a Spitfire seen in the film. It is clearly seen in the practice flight scramble scene where Harvards and Hurricanes are taking off. However, Merk, did you realise later in the film two are seen side by side?After Septic is shot and the Ops Room chaps are listening to him coming down, very weak and struggling with the plane, we see Mrs Clinton walking home to switch her light on. She meets the other girl at an intersection on her bike. In the background are two Spitfires (I am sure of it).

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Dave,

Only within the past couple of months have I been positively able to identity these two Spitfires as P9444 and K9942. I'll not spoil the fun, but look out for our own 'Septics' article in that new US 'mag' to see the photo with clear visible serial.

"I always told 'um there were a couple of Spitfires in this film" :)

Mark

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Cheers Mark.

Are they still around today? And were they active on either Uxbridge or Kenley at the time or sourced just for the film?

And, er, which new US magazine? We don't seem to get any American aircraft magazines here in NZ any more. (or very, very few perhaps in specialist magazine shops maybe)

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Dave


And, er, which new US magazine

PM Inbound

Martin

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Cheers Mark.

Are they still around today? And were they active on either Uxbridge or Kenley at the time or sourced just for the film?

RAFMus Hendon/Cosford and The London Science Museum respectively.

These were airframes set aside for Museum display as early as August 1944 and stored at 58MU.

We knew we had won by then. ;)

Mark

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Thanks Mark and Martin.

What about that extra Bf110? Any ideas which one it was?

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I think there is/was a section of Hess's aircraft's fuselage on display at some point, somewhere in the UK.

East Fortune used to have one of the engines from the '110 on display - don't think it was there earlier this year, though.

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The fuselage and some bits are indeed on display in the IWM Lambeth next to the Lancaster and Halifax (if it's still there, it was 1997). But my point was this can't have been one of the four imported for museum display, can it? It was crashed in Scotland during the Home Guard's finest hour, the capture of Hess.

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In an old thread Geoff "Von Perthes" mentioned the Bf110 was one of four brought to the UK for museum display (I guess as a war prize). He says two still existed, one was lost and one destroyed. I want to know, how was one 'lost'? Was it flown and crashed? Or simply misplaced.

Dave,

The four aircraft I was referring to were Me110G (WNr 180850) which was the 110 in 'Angels one five', Ju87D-5 (WNr 494083) which is extant at Hendon, Me 109G-14 (WNr 464863) which was last known as being in store at Wittering in February 1950, its subsequent fate being unknown!, and Me 109G-14 (WNr 163824) is the '109 which Doug Arnold tried to bring to the UK (as G-SMIT) from Australia, presumably it is still in Australia, but I'm sure others can update us on its current location. It was not, as you can see, four Me110s that I was referring to.

As to how aircraft can just be 'lost', buy or borrow a copy of 'War Prizes' by Phil Butler (Midland Counties Publications), and you'll be surprised how many 'last known' locations of aircraft are followed by 'subsequent fate unknown' or somthing simililar. Perhaps there was seen to be no need to record their trip to the scrap yard, not being RAF aircraft?

Geoff.

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East Fortune used to have one of the engines from the '110 on display - don't think it was there earlier this year, though.

East Fortune does indeed still have this engine on display, in Hangar 1 (the military aviation hangar). You wouldn't have seen it during the forum meet, because it is next to the Spitfire XVI, and I know what your attention would be focussed on! :rolleyes:

Incidentally, I just found out this week the East Fortune has just acquired one of the tail fins of the Hess Bf 110, although as far as I know this is not on display (but I may be wrong!)

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I think the fuselarge of the Bf110 was from a scrap heap.
There was something in a bunch of 1950s era magazines I used to have (about 100 Air Pictorials and the like bought for £1 at a school jumble sale in the mid 80s - fantastic!) about what was on scrap heaps and aircraft dumps on old airfields, and this fuselarge section was (I think) mentioned as being tidied up for use during filming. Where it came from I don't recall.
Also mentioned was the remains of the Hampden set aside for preservation purposes but then used for fire practise or something; all in all very interesting, if not somewhat depressing.

Flood

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Me110 fin

This tail fin was on display at the IWM Lambeth in the late 1950s.

Not 'Angels One Five' but might be relevant.

Has it been seen recently?

mark

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This BFI photo is probably the best view availiable of the Angels One Five bf110 180850.

Septic.

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Mark,

It was still on display there in 1997! http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Vac97.htm and comes from the Me110 of Major H-W Schnaufer, 121 victories 'Schnaufer's greatest one-off success came on 21 February 1945, when he destroyed 9 RAF heavy bombers in the course of one day, two in the early hours of the morning and a further seven in the evening. Post-war research suggests that in fact his total that day was 10, one claim not having been acknowledged.' See here for more info on Schnaufer http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/schnafer.html

And here for a list of 'Me' relics & photos (click on the link on the left) http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Luftwaffe/relics/Relics%20Messerschmitt.htm

The main page is here http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Luftwaffe/relics/

Geoff.

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Batchy Salter was with 609 at Duxford on Typhoons. So he was as original as the airframes.

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This BFI photo is pobably the best view availiable of the Angels One Five bf110 180850.

Septic.

I didn't realise Robbie Fowler was in 'Angels One Five' (or as it was first titled 'Hawks in the sun')

Geoff.

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Thanks Von Perthes!

Posting this late in the day does have its drawbacks.

Septic.

Here's a shot of Batchy just for you Snapper.

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Profile picture for user Dave Homewood

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Thanks chaps. A great photo of the 110 Septic. What a great shame it wasn't preserved.

Thanks for clearing up the four Messerschmitts for me Geoff.

Those old magazines sound fascinating Flood.

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Thanks Von Perthes!

Posting this late in the day does have its drawbacks.

Septic.

Here's a shot of Batchy just for you Snapper.

Ah! Humphrey Lestocq. A stage name.

Mark

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IWM Me110 fin.

Now there is a coincidence.

Looking at the site from which Dave Homewood selected his B-17 for the caption competition, I found this - the Me110 of Major H-W Schnaufer.

Mark

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Humphrey Lestocq Gilbert in the cockpit at Duxford, and far-right with Paul Richey far left and Hal Tidswell drinking in the centre.

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