Help required - Spitfire prop blade?

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Member for

20 years 11 months

Posts: 10

Hello there, on behalf of a mate who has been given a possible Spit prop blade, can anyone help confirm or refute that it is?

The serial numbers on it are.

RA10167J65 SA1822 JP274545M
^
This "8" is overstamped with a "W"

Many thanks.

Original post

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 651

Not a Spitfire but a Seafire. It's a blade for a Rotol R22/4F5/8 propeller fitted to Seafire Mks XV & XVII and made by F. Hills & Sons (originally Jablo Propellers) in Manchester.

Anne

Member for

20 years 11 months

Posts: 10

Thank you Anne, I'll make sure that information gets passed back!

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 3,183

Tell him it's NOT from a Spitfire, offer to take it off his hands cheap THEN, once he's taken the pittance you give, tell him it's from something even rarer! :diablo:

Adrian
(just kidding!)

Member for

19 years 2 months

Posts: 634

Another Seafire? Prop

Not a Spitfire but a Seafire. It's a blade for a Rotol R22/4F5/8 propeller fitted to Seafire Mks XV & XVII and made by F. Hills & Sons (originally Jablo Propellers) in Manchester. Anne

In my collection I also have a prop blade that I was told was from a Seafire, but have never been able to confirm this. It is marked on the base: RTS HRA 68719 B35987H and RA10167. There are other markings to the blade including a red circle with RS F 68719 - the F being larger than all the other figures. and on the steel base PRJP 78424 - They certainly put enough numbers on these things! :D

Any chance of an ID please - it is not for sale, but is going in our museum & I would like to label it correctly.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 651

Same type of blade (Drawing number RA10167). I don't have my stuff to hand so I'll confirm the details tomorrow but I think your one is made by Horden & Richmond (something like that anyway). It's serial is 68719 and as for the red circle that tells you that it is a Jablo type blade. the R of RS tells you the type of covering it has and the S that it has a simple brass sheath fitted and lastly the large letter F tells you that this blade has been mass ballanced.

More tomorrow.

Ooh I need to get out more!

Anne

Member for

19 years 2 months

Posts: 634

Seafire blade confirmed

Thanks Anne - much appreciated - don't worry I am not going to inundate you with queries - most of my other blades are still attached to props or engines & having dug them up I know what they are off :rolleyes:

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 651

I was almost correct, it's was made by Hordern-Richmond Aircraft Ltd of Chesham Bucks. A few extra bits of info, being a Jablo type blade it will be made out of compressed birch blocks and it should have a cellulose nitrate covering called Rotoloid.

Anne

Member for

19 years 2 months

Posts: 634

....and it should have a cellulose nitrate covering called Rotoloid.... Anne

Cellulose Nitrate - As in Guncotton!!??!! :eek: Best not drop it then! ;)

Seriously though - Thanks Anne

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 10,029

Hordern-Richmond Aircraft Ltd of Chesham Bucks

Anne,

Were, Hordern-Richmond Aircraft Ltd of Chesham Bucks, sub contractors to Dowty Rotol?

Obviously Chesham, close to High Wycombe, and the centre for the wooden furniture industry.

There were a great number of these Seafire XVII blades at James MacKay's yard at Milnathort Perth.

Mark

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 651

Cellulose Nitrate - As in Guncotton!!??!! :eek: Best not drop it then! ;)

Well that's what the AP says! Just don't try to stub a fag out on it. ;)

Were, Hordern-Richmond Aircraft Ltd of Chesham Bucks, sub contractors to Dowty Rotol?

One of many who made blades for them although Hordern-Richmond had been producing Watts propellers for the Air Ministry before Rotol came into being.

Anne

Member for

18 years 2 months

Posts: 31

Hi there, I am a new member of this forum, but as a spitfire enthusiast have recently been studying wooden propeller blades especially those made by Rotol (Rotol Airscrews) during WW2. I have no doubt your blade is a Rotol, and was first fitted to the Seafire Mk XV. This can be easily identified by the numbers you stated, and much can be gleaned from one book which I can recommend called :-
'Rotol' The history of an Air Screw company. By Bruce Stait.
published 1990. ISBN 0 9516815 0 8. Try one of the used online booksearch companies. The book is priced around £15 second hand, and is full of production details including some pictures of manufacturing processes,together with diagrams explaining the numbers on the side and underneath of each blade.Also included is an explanation of the tech terms used together with the weatherproofing methods and their names etc.
As a collector myself, have managed to discover quite a lot more, so please feel free to get in touch.

Member for

20 years 6 months

Posts: 245

Could any one identify my blade please ! its 'Merlin' i think,wooden, with metal leading edge, i was told it originated from a Hurricane which ,'came down in a garden', which sounds so daft, maybe its true!.....why say Hurricane when you could say Spitfire!...its in poor condition (probably been part of a fence) it has yellow tips and where one of these has weathered i think i can make out,W45933 or W45935? The only other marking visible is a pinky/red circle the other end,the metal part is heavily rusted. it does seem broader at the base than other blades i have seen.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 651

Sounds like a Jablo blade actually made by Rotol as they are the only people I know of that used W as a part of their serials.

If you look up into the wood at the root end of the blade, (the circular rusty bit you mentioned) you should find some numbers carved into base. If you find any, (especially if they start with RA as that would be the Rotol drawing number) let us know and we can have a look and see if we can trace what type of prop and what types of aircraft it may have been used on.

Anne

Member for

20 years 6 months

Posts: 245

Hi Anne,
Thanks for reply, im afraid the blade is in such poor condition 'underneath' that any numbers have long since gone.....i would have a more thorough search for numbers but me backs gone and it weighs a ton !!!! when you say Jablo/Rotol,does this mean it could possibly be Hurricane? i really know nothing about prop blades.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 1,353

What's the general value for a static Rotol Spitfire propeller blade in good condition but with some cracks in the covering? Just wanting to know.

Cheers

Cees

Member for

20 years

Posts: 268

Please can I put a question about a blade here? It has the following; RA10046 RS also RS51125. There ia another number 046875. I suspect Seafire but is it wood or metal ?
Many thanks
Tony K

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 651

Cor...lots of questions.

Dr. Orac is now open for business.

Scramble Bill; It's possible that it's from a Hurricane but without the drawing number it's almost impossible to tell. The lack of a stencilled drawing number above the 'pink circle' does tend to suggest a wartime prop.

Cees; Sorry, no idea but I've noticed that by adding the word Spitfire to any aircraft fitting appears to entitle people to add another wad of cash to the asking price. Strange...I've always preferred words like Halifax...Hmmmm.

Tony; You think right. Seafires IA, IIA & III were found using these but I wasn't just Seafires…Spitfires Mks. VII, VIII & IX also used this type of blade. Although I don't have it on my list I'm sure you would also find this type of blade on a Mk. XVI as well. It should be wooden. If there is a coloured disc on the front of the blade that should give me a clue as to what type of wood it's made of.

The Rotol surgery is now closed.

Anne

Member for

18 years 3 months

Posts: 2,025

I've also got a prop hub that I need help to I.D ,its from a merlin (I know that because the shaft was still in it !) its 15 3/4'' across the "shoulders" and each prop"quadrant" is 8 3/4'' dia and the center boss is 11 1/2'' long; stamped into the base of the blades are the following numbers,301899, 70662, 57413, 1724, (thats one set of numbers per blade) there are a few other numbers in the base of the blade but are illegible. Any help would be greatfully received . (this hub is not for sale not even if its Spitfire!)

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 651

Sorry Stuart but the numbers you quote don't match any drawing numbers I know of.

Anne

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 1,353

Thanks Anne,

But I wasn't going to sell the prop blade. It's ex-Dutch so has some historical value here. It is however available for swaps with a Halifax throttle box :rolleyes: or other interesting Hally bits.

Cheers

Cees