When I went through as an apprentice in the early '80s, RAF Halton's Old Workshops had a Hercules amongst the ranks of Leonides in the engine bay. I assumed it was from the Beau classroom / G-DINT. If it's still there, with the looming demise of Old Workshops (have they already gone?) I wonder if it will be looking for a home...
By: Vintage
- 22nd August 2019 at 19:23Permalink- Edited 22nd August 2019 at 19:25
When I went through as an apprentice in the early '80s, RAF Halton's Old Workshops had a Hercules amongst the ranks of Leonides in the engine bay. I assumed it was from the Beau classroom / G-DINT. If it's still there, with the looming demise of Old Workshops (have they already gone?) I wonder if it will be looking for a home...
It was gone by the mid '70s then! You sure you are not thinking of the motorised and sectioned Centaurus? My goodness, that was a beautiful thing! Anyone know where that Halton Centaurus demo engine is now?
By: Beaufighter VI
- 22nd August 2019 at 22:04Permalink
You are going back a bit now guys! I worked on the sectioned Centaurus at the end of my time in workshops at Halton, 1959! Where it is now I do not know.
It was gone by the mid '70s then! You sure you are not thinking of the motorised and sectioned Centaurus? My goodness, that was a beautiful thing! Anyone know where that Halton Centaurus demo engine is now?
V
Yes, well as of 2004 it was in the propulsion school at Cosford. Actually still used as a training aid...
By: 8674planes
- 23rd August 2019 at 17:32Permalink
Are the Hercules engines and accessories + bearers due to be shipped to Historical Aircraft Engines in Australia for rebuild or will this work be carried out in the UK?
Interesting article, the one about the smuggler, but oh so sad to see the dismantled remains of the two de-H propellers quietly rusting away in the open in the pic of the wreckage.
They are just what this project needs, but they'll be beyond saving now.:apologetic:
Spot on! I'd forgotten both that it was a Centaurus and sectioned.
:) Yes, and a very good job by all who did it! . However, you know what amazes me?.... there was not a single Merlin, Hercules or Sabre to be found ANYWHERE at Halton by the mid '70s! :( I have more Merlin parts here in my study than existed at Halton by then! Nor, were there any early gas turbines! To me it is outrageous! There should have been examples of all the RAF stepping-stones of aviation development in those workshops. What was it...No.1 SofTT! Where was the history, the pride or the price in blood. Where is it now?
By: 1batfastard
- 24th August 2019 at 12:18Permalink- Edited 27th October 2019 at 06:53
Hi All, I know I may get some comeback with this thought :rolleyes: What about the old scrapping sites or the myriad of Satellite airfield repair stations ? was anything just bulldozed into a very large pit and covered over when abandoning ? Similar to what the yanks did at East Kirkby ?
I imagine that with all that metal being scraped by all forces never mind the USAAC and RAF/FAA etc.etc. at the end of the war even a few years after, the price of scrap metal would have been very low by the sheer quantity available or was it all just smelted.
I know, I know what your thinking all fantasy but hey you never know maybe somebody remembers from when they were a kid watching on whatever site as the irks just did what they were told no questions asked ? But I am thinking well outside the box here. One more question what happened to the Beaufighter (Four bladed prop) that was on the RAF Hereford drill ground ? it was there in 1978.... Geoff.
New
By: Anonymous
- 24th August 2019 at 13:23Permalink- Edited 14th June 2020 at 08:19
Beaufighter at Hereford? Don't think so, do you mean RAF Halton? X7688, was being restored by Tim Moore as G-DINT, project sold to Rob Greinert/Historic Aircraft Restorations in Aus.
By: 1batfastard
- 25th August 2019 at 22:19Permalink
Hi All, Hooligan - No definitely there at Hereford in 78, I was stationed there doing my training as a cook. I even asked about this a while back on a website that somebody runs for old contact from the base and he could remember it.
I always wondered if there was a connection between it and the resto info you mentioned, maybe it was there for while and then moved on ? It always stuck in my mind with the four bladed prop and all over silver scheme. I don't know maybe it was not logged as part of it's journey from station to station in it's life before finally leaving the RAF ?
I have fired off emails to both Skysport Engineering and the current custodians at HARS where it is undergoing restoration or was as of 2018.
By: Consul
- 26th August 2019 at 00:37Permalink- Edited 26th August 2019 at 00:51
No Beaufighter was on display at Hereford (Credenhill) when I visited there in the 1970s.
There was though one once there, amongst other aircraft, but back in 1946 and since long gone! See bottom aircraft in this image: https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW001097
By: 1batfastard
- 27th August 2019 at 18:13Permalink
HI All, Consul - When in the 70's where you there ? Where were you allowed to visit on the base ? Like I mentioned maybe during it's journey from service to civvie life it could have been a temporary solution ? The only major problem with this theory is that it would have travelled east to west from Halton, being as there other bases in the locality it makes no sense to store it at Hereford.
The only other possibility I can come up with is it was on it's way to St Athan ? but if it was then it would have been on a queen mary or dismantled and not sitting on it's undercarriage surely, another possibility and looking more likely being as no info available or sa of yet forthcoming, could it have been a Varsity ? but that needs to be looked at and the Varsity is not a tail dragger.
I still maintain the aircraft that I saw was an all over Silver Four bladed prop Beaufighter, I know I cannot prove this but like I also mentioned someone else has confirmed this via the RAF Hereford web site.
Like I mentioned also awaiting responses from Skysport and HARS.
By: Consul
- 27th August 2019 at 19:25Permalink- Edited 27th August 2019 at 19:56
I think it more likely that what you saw was Valetta WD159 and not a Beaufighter. This Valetta was once preserved with the collection kept at at RAF Colerne, but was later moved by road to Hereford for further static military use. I can confirm that WD159 was silver overall and, as a twin engined tail-dragger which had four bladed props, this also fits with what you describe.
Could it have been a Vickers Valetta instead of a Varsity? They were tail drag hers, with four blade props. Looks like WD159 was around that area in 1977 at least? http://www.ukserials.com/results.php?serial=WD
By: 1batfastard
- 27th August 2019 at 20:18Permalink
Hi All, Spiteful - I was stationed there in 78 and the Valetta was blown up in 77, but you have given me a new train of thought I'll keep digging....:eagerness:
By: Consul
- 27th August 2019 at 21:22Permalink- Edited 27th August 2019 at 21:34
The Valetta was destroyed in Dec 1977 but was replaced by significant elements of a Hastings. Yet another tail dragger with four bladed props. This design was of course a four engined type, but an incomplete airframe was involved. This tangent and consequent speculation about what you saw at Hereford is not helping the Beau thread so I won’t comment further.
Threadcreep, the Beaufighter is more exciting although I hit my head against many protrusions when I was allowed to take a peak inside. Wonderful aircraft though.
Posts: 9
By: Throwley - 22nd August 2019 at 15:10 Permalink
When I went through as an apprentice in the early '80s, RAF Halton's Old Workshops had a Hercules amongst the ranks of Leonides in the engine bay. I assumed it was from the Beau classroom / G-DINT. If it's still there, with the looming demise of Old Workshops (have they already gone?) I wonder if it will be looking for a home...
Posts: 55
By: Vintage - 22nd August 2019 at 19:23 Permalink - Edited 22nd August 2019 at 19:25
It was gone by the mid '70s then! You sure you are not thinking of the motorised and sectioned Centaurus? My goodness, that was a beautiful thing! Anyone know where that Halton Centaurus demo engine is now?
V
Posts: 554
By: Beaufighter VI - 22nd August 2019 at 22:04 Permalink
You are going back a bit now guys! I worked on the sectioned Centaurus at the end of my time in workshops at Halton, 1959! Where it is now I do not know.
Posts: 168
By: KurtB - 23rd August 2019 at 05:30 Permalink
Yes, well as of 2004 it was in the propulsion school at Cosford. Actually still used as a training aid...
Posts: 9
By: Throwley - 23rd August 2019 at 08:09 Permalink
Spot on! I'd forgotten both that it was a Centaurus and sectioned.
Posts: 1,078
By: 8674planes - 23rd August 2019 at 17:32 Permalink
Are the Hercules engines and accessories + bearers due to be shipped to Historical Aircraft Engines in Australia for rebuild or will this work be carried out in the UK?
Posts: 2,841
By: Anon - 23rd August 2019 at 18:19 Permalink
Interesting article, the one about the smuggler, but oh so sad to see the dismantled remains of the two de-H propellers quietly rusting away in the open in the pic of the wreckage.
They are just what this project needs, but they'll be beyond saving now.:apologetic:
Anon.
Posts: 55
By: Vintage - 23rd August 2019 at 20:19 Permalink
:) Yes, and a very good job by all who did it! . However, you know what amazes me?.... there was not a single Merlin, Hercules or Sabre to be found ANYWHERE at Halton by the mid '70s! :( I have more Merlin parts here in my study than existed at Halton by then! Nor, were there any early gas turbines! To me it is outrageous! There should have been examples of all the RAF stepping-stones of aviation development in those workshops. What was it...No.1 SofTT! Where was the history, the pride or the price in blood. Where is it now?
V
Posts: 3,652
By: 1batfastard - 24th August 2019 at 12:18 Permalink - Edited 27th October 2019 at 06:53
Hi All, I know I may get some comeback with this thought :rolleyes: What about the old scrapping sites or the myriad of Satellite airfield repair stations ? was anything just bulldozed into a very large pit and covered over when abandoning ? Similar to what the yanks did at East Kirkby ?
I imagine that with all that metal being scraped by all forces never mind the USAAC and RAF/FAA etc.etc. at the end of the war even a few years after, the price of scrap metal would have been very low by the sheer quantity available or was it all just smelted.
I know, I know what your thinking all fantasy but hey you never know maybe somebody remembers from when they were a kid watching on whatever site as the irks just did what they were told no questions asked ? But I am thinking well outside the box here. One more question what happened to the Beaufighter (Four bladed prop) that was on the RAF Hereford drill ground ? it was there in 1978.... Geoff.
By: Anonymous - 24th August 2019 at 13:23 Permalink - Edited 14th June 2020 at 08:19
Beaufighter at Hereford? Don't think so, do you mean RAF Halton? X7688, was being restored by Tim Moore as G-DINT, project sold to Rob Greinert/Historic Aircraft Restorations in Aus.
https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/code-number/X7688
Posts: 3,652
By: 1batfastard - 25th August 2019 at 22:19 Permalink
Hi All,
Hooligan - No definitely there at Hereford in 78, I was stationed there doing my training as a cook. I even asked about this a while back on a website that somebody runs for old contact from the base and he could remember it.
I always wondered if there was a connection between it and the resto info you mentioned, maybe it was there for while and then moved on ? It always stuck in my mind with the four bladed prop and all over silver scheme. I don't know maybe it was not logged as part of it's journey from station to station in it's life before finally leaving the RAF ?
I have fired off emails to both Skysport Engineering and the current custodians at HARS where it is undergoing restoration or was as of 2018.
Geoff.
Posts: 1,772
By: Consul - 26th August 2019 at 00:37 Permalink - Edited 26th August 2019 at 00:51
No Beaufighter was on display at Hereford (Credenhill) when I visited there in the 1970s.
There was though one once there, amongst other aircraft, but back in 1946 and since long gone! See bottom aircraft in this image:
https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW001097
Posts: 3,652
By: 1batfastard - 27th August 2019 at 18:13 Permalink
HI All,
Consul - When in the 70's where you there ? Where were you allowed to visit on the base ? Like I mentioned maybe during it's journey from service to civvie life it could have been a temporary solution ? The only major problem with this theory is that it would have travelled east to west from Halton, being as there other bases in the locality it makes no sense to store it at Hereford.
The only other possibility I can come up with is it was on it's way to St Athan ? but if it was then it would have been on a queen mary or dismantled and not sitting on it's undercarriage surely, another possibility and looking more likely being as no info available or sa of yet forthcoming, could it have been a Varsity ? but that needs to be looked at and the Varsity is not a tail dragger.
I still maintain the aircraft that I saw was an all over Silver Four bladed prop Beaufighter, I know I cannot prove this but like I also mentioned someone else has confirmed this via the RAF Hereford web site.
Like I mentioned also awaiting responses from Skysport and HARS.
Geoff.
Posts: 1,772
By: Consul - 27th August 2019 at 19:25 Permalink - Edited 27th August 2019 at 19:56
I think it more likely that what you saw was Valetta WD159 and not a Beaufighter. This Valetta was once preserved with the collection kept at at RAF Colerne, but was later moved by road to Hereford for further static military use. I can confirm that WD159 was silver overall and, as a twin engined tail-dragger which had four bladed props, this also fits with what you describe.
Posts: 223
By: Spiteful - 27th August 2019 at 19:29 Permalink
Could it have been a Vickers Valetta instead of a Varsity? They were tail drag hers, with four blade props. Looks like WD159 was around that area in 1977 at least? http://www.ukserials.com/results.php?serial=WD
Posts: 3,652
By: 1batfastard - 27th August 2019 at 20:18 Permalink
Hi All,
Spiteful - I was stationed there in 78 and the Valetta was blown up in 77, but you have given me a new train of thought I'll keep digging....:eagerness:
Geoff.
Posts: 1,772
By: Consul - 27th August 2019 at 21:22 Permalink - Edited 27th August 2019 at 21:34
The Valetta was destroyed in Dec 1977 but was replaced by significant elements of a Hastings. Yet another tail dragger with four bladed props. This design was of course a four engined type, but an incomplete airframe was involved. This tangent and consequent speculation about what you saw at Hereford is not helping the Beau thread so I won’t comment further.
Posts: 2,172
By: CeBro - 29th August 2019 at 11:24 Permalink
Threadcreep, the Beaufighter is more exciting although I hit my head against many protrusions when I was allowed to take a peak inside. Wonderful aircraft though.
Posts: 554
By: Beaufighter VI - 21st October 2019 at 13:20 Permalink
Back in the groove again, still searching.
Posts: 7,029
By: trumper - 22nd October 2019 at 09:47 Permalink
Good luck ,this is one aircraft i would really love to see fly after all these years