P-51 G-SHWN 'The Shark' 'Mishap' At Le Touquet

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From these 14 photos it appears that the P-51 Mustang G-SHWN, 'The Shark', had a narrow escape with calamity at Le Touquet yesterday - fortunately both pilot and passenger are obviously unhurt and the aircraft will be repairable:- https://www.facebook.com/OlivierCaen...type=3&theater
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Great photos and great flying!
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OK, I'm going to admit straight away that I'm indulging in the same ill-informed specualtion that drives us all mad here. Feel free to dive in and attempt to change my mind - especially if you have experience in the field, which I know some people here do, and I don't. There's at least one other video online of this P51 getting into trouble with a crosswind on landing. Should the operators be revising their crosswind limits? Mods - if that's going too far - I will not be upset if you splat my post. Adrian (just glad I'm not the one doing the passenger's laundry)

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Should the operators be revising their crosswind limits?

Possibly, but I can foresee the insurers imposing them first.

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Does anyone know if there are crosswind limits on a P-51? Was this tested on 1940-41?

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There are crosswind limits on all aeroplanes Orion, but don’t know what they are on a P51 though.

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Incorrect Sopwith - the Piper Pawnee for example has no crosswind limit at all. Common sense prevails - if it’s too windy to leave it parked, don’t fly it...

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Wasn't crosswind deemed to be the cause of 'Janie' crashing at Hardwick a few years ago? On which note, I trust Maurice Hammond is progressing with his recovery? Is there any information on whether 'Janie' will be 'rebuilt' to fly again, similarly 'BBD' after her crash following collision with the Skyraider? TIA, Rich
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Crosswind limits weren’t considered when airfields could be used in several directions. Even various Cessnas and Pipers up until the late 90s/early 00s only have a ‘maximum demonstrated’ figure and therefore no stated limit.

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Well there may not be a stated crosswind limit on a Pawnee, Fournier Boy but there will be a limit, either how much the particular pilot can handle or how much the the aircraft can safely handle.

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There are crosswind limits on all aeroplanes Orion, but don’t know what they are on a P51 though.
Not convinced this is true for all aeroplanes. I'm by no means convinced that veteran and vintage aeroplanes had the necessary testing applied to them. Does anyone know when the relevant British authorities (for a start perhaps) began such testing?
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Possibly, but I can foresee the insurers imposing them first.
Assuming they find out...It's not likely to result in a claim.
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Not convinced this is true for all aeroplanes. I'm by no means convinced that veteran and vintage aeroplanes had the necessary testing applied to them. Does anyone know when the relevant British authorities (for a start perhaps) began such testing?
Probably about five minutes after someone coined the phrase "ground loop" ;)

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At the risk of being provocative, what I remember from when I flew was "maximum demonstrated crosswind landing". With that is the assumption that it is entirely possible to get it right above that limit- it is simply the case that a seriously qualified test pilot had done that but no further. As a low hours pilot I dialed a few crosswind knots off my personal limit.

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Wasn't crosswind deemed to be the cause of 'Janie' crashing at Hardwick a few years ago? On which note, I trust Maurice Hammond is progressing with his recovery? Is there any information on whether 'Janie' will be 'rebuilt' to fly again, similarly 'BBD' after her crash following collision with the Skyraider? TIA, Rich
No, a poorly executed go-around was more the issue.

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Don'cha luv them "armchair Experts" ?? The correct term is "Demonstrated Crosswind Limit". ie the amount of crosswind present on the day that the certification authority (FAA,CAA,CASA,DOT,CAB etc) was observing during said certification trials. If aged memory serves me right from my aircrew days, the DC 10 "limit" was only 10 knots, then some time later was repromulgated as 34 knots. The limit is only a guide as to what is reasonably safe for an average pilot rather than a "Faster than this you will damage the aircraft or yourself" but for some it is lower and others somewhat higher. As a longterm flight instructor I can "demonstrate " to a student what I and/or the aircraft can hopefully cope with so that he/she knows that it is themselves that is the limiting factor, not the aircraft. "Don't let your confidence exceed your competence" OK ramble rant over.

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Thanks Stan, at least someone with experience telling it how it is, I hate seeing pilots being criticised when the person doing the criticism has no skills other than tapping a computer keyboard.

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No criticism of anyone on my part as I can appreciate things can happen. Speaking as a 1000 hrs+ pilot ( most on tailwheel ). So no armchair expert

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Sopwith its no criticism of you at all, relates to the Duxford thread I have expressed in.

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All military aircraft have x-wind limits,determined on a variety of surfaces,depending on the aircraft role,and with various weapons fitted,both symmetrical and asymmetric,and any special techniques necessary..If ,as a pilot you should go outside those limits and damage the aircraft,unless you have strong mitigating/extenuating circumstances ,you will have a `one way conversation,no tea/biccies,with higher authority`... Civilian Aviation Authorities usually do not apply such limits,normally a `maximum demonstrated` x-wind,and leave it to the operator/airline to make their own decision.....same with CAP632 Operators... In this case,a strong or gusty x-wind landing should be a `wheelie`,,preferably with less flap,or retract laps after touchdown,and with the stick nailed into wind to prevent the upwind wing from rising...it is unwise to attempt a 3-pointer in gusty x-winds.... Presume the aircraft will return on a trailer, as the skin wrinkles would indicate a possible bent rear spar..... Would have been better to have landed a few miles down the coast.......
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There are crosswind limits on all aeroplanes...
You can define 'crosswind limits' two ways: - Legal/official limit. As has been explained before, there may be a number in a manual somewhere above which you should not venture as a pilot. This may be a 'max demonstrated' number, which is where the test pilot, either because of common sense or meteorological conditions on the day, decided that enough was enough. Many operators have something in their OM that makes it a breach of company procedures to go beyond this, making it an official limit, or they create a different limit at a lower number. - Practical limits. There will be a point at which the yawing moment imparted on the aeroplane by a side component of the local wind will be stronger than the (opposite) yawing moment created by maximum rudder input from the pilot, assisted as needed by differential brakes and all other tricks that may be useful on that particular type. Before anyone says 'that's what I meant', please consider that this is NOT a fixed number, but is dependant on (in no particular order): whether we look at steady wind, or any gusts/turbulence/other influences creating unsteadiness, attitude of the aircraft (tail high, tail low, with associated rudder blanking), position of the elevator with associated tail blanking (which is dependant on loading for example), configuration of the aeroplane (flaps up, down or in between, possible use of airbrakes, external stores), wind direction (left or right), prop rotation (clockwise or counter-clockwise), rate of pitch change and the associated gyroscopic effects (which in themselves are dependant on the power setting), power setting and the associated slipstream effects, airspeed and the rate of airspeed change. If I left something out, my apologies. What this boils down to is this: unless you really know your aeroplane, stick to any applicable limits and keep some kind of margin in hand for the day where one of these variables may try to bite you.