Sikorsky R-4B

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19 years 11 months

Posts: 1,988

Has anybody ever restored an R4-B to airworthy condition?

If there isn't one around, is there a particular reason for this - is it parts availability or is the technology of such an early vintage that it couldn't be certified today. The earliest operational helicopters around seem to be Bell 47s now

I remember seeing an derelict R-4B frame in the yard behind Planes of Fame on my only visit to Chino over 25 years ago - whatever came of it - I always kind of hoped that they might work their magic on it

Original post

Member for

19 years 3 months

Posts: 308

When I visited the restoration shop at Yanks Air Museum at Chino in September last, they were working on a R-4, could have been the same one

Member for

19 years 5 months

Posts: 9,821

I believe an antique helicopter restorer in Oregon had one flying in the 60s...(he also restored a H-5 and has (or had) a very early Bell 47 with a fabric-covered tailboom)
I believe it went to a museum.
If you look at the naked R-4 rotorblade on display at the NMUSAF, it was a wood skeleton covered with fabric, rather like an old airplane wing.
Pretty crude technology..and I imagine the gearbox and transmission aren't much better.
The TBO is probably measured in in minutes rather than hours. :D
At the end of the day I guess the reason there isn't one flying is because a shortage of restorable airframes, and the lack of will to do it. It could be done, but at a cost.

IMHO: Not many people seem to care about old helicopters...witnesss some of the stupid prejudices and comments about helicopters found on this MB.
I'll predict not many people will even look at this thread, whereas anything having to do with the UK aviation or Spitfire will have hundreds of hits.

Member for

20 years 6 months

Posts: 8,195

Interesting.

There's quite a lot of survivors, several in good nick. The Yanks Air Museum example at Chino is 'awaiting' resteration I think, but I'd be delighted it it moved up the queue. Was the frame in the workshop with dust on, or was there chaps with wrenches Seaking?

The earliest flying rotorcraft is a 30s Pitcairn in the States; rebuilt to fly in the 80s by Steve Pitcairn himself. The Spanish built and flew a Cierva C-30 (Avro Rota) which was very sucessful of the few flights they did in the late 1990s.

I'd suspect there's little wrong with the technology, though John's right that it's crude (I prefer simple :D ) but there were a number of other issues with rotocraft of that era; when I discussed the possibility of restoring to flight the taxiable Avro Rota of the Shuttleworth Collection with them, they said a polite 'no' due to issues over building and ballancing the rotor blades, the number of mods to the rotor head (the C-30 family went through lots of underdocumented experimental changes) and most critically the issue of ground resonance. Finally, many rotorcraft of that period were seriously underpowered. On a hot day, you needed a thin pilot with empty pockets!

Incidentally, I also agree with John's comment about the negative vibes for rotorcraft and non Spitfire items here... Though I think there's a few too many Mustang threads too...

Cheers!

Member for

19 years 2 months

Posts: 1,317

We once "restored" a Benso Gyrocopter to static condition. The technology was basic and the construction of the structure was OK but the rotor blades and the head asembly were such that even if brand new I wouldnt be trusting my life to them! The one at Hendon looks good in the new building. I prefer a Jest ranger but they are not new technology. One I flew in a few years ago had tape holding the windows together (not the one in the photo)

Member for

19 years 3 months

Posts: 151

I would LOVE to try out an R-4!!! can't be much worse than the R-44 I fly now.
JetRangers are good machines...but those seats royally screw up my back after a couple of hours!!

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24 years 2 months

Posts: 3,183

In "One of the Few" Johnny Kent describes flying the R4 - it seems to have been a bit of a handful, and prone to interfacing with the ground at unwanted moments. Probably a good reason not to try to fly one today - whose lovely R4 do you want to break today?

Adrian

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19 years 3 months

Posts: 308

The R4 at Yanks was sitting in the restoration shop, but no one was working on it at the time of my visit

Member for

20 years 6 months

Posts: 8,195

Thanks Seaking. I suspect it's still in the queue. Still, it's in good hands and will be restored well.

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20 years

Posts: 3,031

Rob Whitton - The JR is indeed not new it first flew 39 years ago!!!
J Boyle I agree it's nice to see rotary getting an airing...
Such a shame that the early types are so few and even then non-airworthy due to spares problems.

Re-early blades - When Bell 47 G-ARXH (?) was last airworthy it had wooden blades IIRC it was also the oldest '47 in Europe with a c/n 40. Remember watching it start and the main rotor having to be held until the engine had a bit of speed to it and then released - apartently put less strain on the engine to get the wooden blades going.

Member for

19 years 5 months

Posts: 9,821

I just read that Steve Pitcarin is donating the flyable Pitcarin to the EAA museum...looks like its flying days are probably over.

I'd love to see an R-4, H-5 or R-6 fly...but it doesn't look real promising.
And in an era where few later (and easier to get parts for) historic piston powered helicopters fly (H-19s/H-21 (1 flies)/H-34s/HUP (1 flies) /HOK-HTK-H-43A(none that I know of)...and appearently just one Sycamore & no Belvederes)...I can't see many people spending the money to make an earlier helicopter fly. Maybe the Shuttleworth Collection will take an interest just to insure a pioneer UK helicopter remains airworthy for posterity.

If I'm not mistaken, even the restored planes at Yanks rarely fly. And on the subject of helicopters Mr. Nichols has a very nice Bell H-13E in correct period MASH markings...(as opposed to the many later model Bell 47s in faux MASH schemes...a note to operators...some of us can tell the difference!).

About wood blades...
The wood blades for the Bell 47 aren't a supply problem in the USA. Several firms rebuild them (I believe they have just a TBO for overhaul).
Unlike the metal blades for the later Bell 47 models (everything later than the G-2 if memory serves correctly) the wood blades can be rebuilt.
They're completely different than the early wooden blades found on the R-4 and various autogiros (Cierva, Pitcarins, Kellett etc.)