Water-Cooled Radial's ?

Profile picture for user STORMBIRD262

Member for

15 years 2 months

Posts: 2,145

I was looking though some of my book's, and really for the first time! :o . I noticed a few different water-cooled radial engine's :eek: , Just how many different type's were built :confused: , the one I have been looking at is a 200hp(194-kW) Salmson CM.9., in a Bleriot-Spad S.33 transport. I'm guessing the water cooled radial didn't really become a hit :confused: . I would be interested, to learn a little more a about water-cooled radial's :) . Anyone know much outthere in cyberspace about them :confused: . Thank's in advance if you can help ;)
Original post

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 301

Radials were particularly suited to air-cooling since they all presented their cylinders directly to the airstream (this became decreasingly true later with multi-bank radials). With inline engines, however, the cylinders at the back were shielded from the cooling airstream by the ones at the front, so air-cooled inlines were difficult to keep cool, especially as they became bigger and more powerful. So liquid-cooling was essential for the Merlins etc of this world, but an unnecessary complication for the radials. The radials lost some efficiency through being air-cooled, but it was worth it to gain the greater robustness and damage-tolerance from doing without the cooling system. Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 8,505

Believe it or not Tony that is almost word perfect to the explanation I gave my son this morning.
Profile picture for user Papa Lima

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 2,929

According to Bill Gunston in his book "The Development of Piston Aero Engines" (page 115), "Salmsons . . . were the only really successful water-cooled radials".

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 8,505

Possibly because few other companies bothered with the idea?
Profile picture for user STORMBIRD262

Member for

15 years 2 months

Posts: 2,145

Great stuff guy's That's a great run though Tony :) , magic start to the thread, thank's mate :cool: . I am pretty much up to speed on all the different inline's and air-cooled engine's, but I must not have really ever have noticed the water-cooled radial's, Why is beyond me!!!! :o :o .(saw some air cooled inline's too, in me travel's :eek: ) O.k, here's what I have been up to today while surfing for water-cooled radial's :rolleyes: . Papa, yes Salmson would have to have been THE most successfull mate, with this type of engine ;) . But there were many many more type's built :eek: :eek: :eek: . The first ever was the engine of Samuel.piermont.Langley's, Aerodrome :eek: . The engine's he used where built by Stephen Balzer originaly, but produced to lower power that expected, 8hp instead of 12hp. Then Sam's mate, Charle's Manly reworked the design, in to a 5 cylinder water-cooled radial, delivering a remarkable 52hp at 950 rpm's. :eek: Sound's like old Charly was an amazing Lad, as it took latter designer's year's to duplicate it successfully. So now from Manly's engine, though to 1939 and beyond O.k ;) Here's is a list of water-cooled radial builder's(probably even more though :rolleyes: ). Albatross Anzani B.M.W, 114 9 cylinder water-cooled radial's(proto's) Clement-Bayard Fiat Garuffa Jumo, Jumo222 of 1939, up to 3,000hp, 24 cylinder, 5 bank's of 4 cylinder's, " Star ", liquid-cooled radial( another monster, gave em lot's or trouble) Lycoming 1940's, A 7,555 cu in 36 cylinder Liquid-cooled radial, MONSTER!!!! or WHAT!! :eek: Rumpler Salmson, Many different type's built(one of which is the photo below) Wright Aeronautical, During WW2 Wright tested a 42 cylinder liquid-cooled engine. O.k now I do hope that's as interesting, to some of the Lady's and Gent's on the forum, as It was for me ;) , learning something new about water-cooled radial's, that was a blank to me :o . I Must stop looking at all the awesome picture's, in some of my aircraft book's. AND REALLY READ THEM MORE IN DEPTH, AND TAKE IT IN!!!!! :o . Let the disscussion's on Water-Cooled radial's continue please now :) . (p.s. if you don't use you will lose it :p ) O.k been to many many site's but this was about the best one I think. Called AEHS, Aircraft Engine Historical Society, top stuff,(photo from there) Here's the link if I can do it right. http://www.enginehistory.org/ Check it out fantastic stuff!!!
Attachment Size
SalmsonZ-9_1.jpg 127.51 KB

Member for

15 years 11 months

Posts: 4,674

There's one area where water-cooled radials are still in use: Naval applications, like the East German/Soviet "Parchim II" class ASW corvettes, which had a JSC Zvezda M533 56-cylinder water-cooled radial diesel. This configuration is also used in the West, e.g. by Bugatti Marine Engines, with up to 112 cylinders.
Profile picture for user STORMBIRD262

Member for

15 years 2 months

Posts: 2,145

Thank's Distilly mate, They sound like monster engine's!!!!.
Profile picture for user Papa Lima

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 2,929

Trying to imagine what a 112 cylinder radial engine might look like, I googled up this one with a mere 42 cylinders . . .
Profile picture for user STORMBIRD262

Member for

15 years 2 months

Posts: 2,145

Thank's Papa, I wonder if you could power an aircraft with it Mate(LoL).?????
Profile picture for user ZRX61

Member for

14 years 4 months

Posts: 4,789

How about diesels radials? The A&P school at Van Nuys Airport has some Guiberson's that I think are diesels. :confused:
Profile picture for user Melvyn Hiscock

Member for

15 years 10 months

Posts: 2,763

How about diesels radials? The A&P school at Van Nuys Airport has some Guiberson's that I think are diesels. :confused:
They were licenced to go into Stinsons. About 260hp from memory. They were also used in the M3 Stuart light tank. I spent a happy afternoon stonking arounf Mojave in one of those once.
Profile picture for user STORMBIRD262

Member for

15 years 2 months

Posts: 2,145

Interesting choice Papa, I am thinking about starting a thread, about the different steam-engine's that powered or tried to power, different aircraft. Thank's ZR interesting Mate. Is that a true fact Melv, into Stinson's?, sound's like a fun ride too! With so many Liquid-cooled Radial's made, has anyone on here ever seen one, in person running?, just wondering if they sound different?.