B-17G-25-VE 42-97683

Profile picture for user Kansan

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14 years 6 months

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I'm curious about the chunk of B-17 fin in the NMUSAF in Dayton,OH which I saw a couple of years ago and about which I've been reading for even longer. There's a picture of it at http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/ce46.htm You don't see very many aircraft which are the subject of TWO MACRs MACR# 10201 Date 440918 (Sept 18th 1944) B-17 42-97683 Gp95 Sqn335 Pilot-Miller MACR# 12824 Date 450315 (March 15th 1945) B-17 42-97683 Gp301 Sqn353 Pilot (?) Tell me if I'm wrong. Was it hit/damaged during "Frantic IV" (which was on 9/18/44 supplying the Warsaw uprising), abandoned somewhere somewhere by the 8th AF (first MACR) and then repaired, picked up by the 15th AF and taken back to Italy? I imagine it was desirable to the new owners because it was an H2X "Mickey" ship. It was finally shot down in 1945 (second MACR). The picture on the NMUSAF website clearly shows what looks like an individual letter "M" which tallies with its entry in the Freeman B-17 Story (gives the 95BG/335BS identity OE-M) and also visible is the 301BG/353BS insignia (the "Y" and the "4"). I've been googling this for some time and haven't come up with anything else. I should have grabbed someone at Dayton when I was there but there was so much to salivate about that I didn't think of it at the time. Has someone on this forum already got hold of the MACRs? What's the real story? On a more general note, is there a simple way to get accident reports and MACR (missing air crew reports) from the US National Archives without having to resort to employing a private researcher or company? The Archives website is a bit vague. I see I can request this stuff but the method for doing it is not obvious. Maybe it's because I'm not actually American or just don't understand the official mindset. Over to you... Rob / Kansan
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Profile picture for user Moggy C

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Pity you didn't ask this a couple of weeks back. I flew some 95BG veterans on their return to the UK in June. Doubtful if they'd really remember an individual aircraft though. Have you tried posting on the, quite active, 95BG veterans web site? Moggy
Profile picture for user Kansan

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Pity you didn't ask this a couple of weeks back. I flew some 95BG veterans on their return to the UK in June. Doubtful if they'd really remember an individual aircraft though. Have you tried posting on the, quite active, 95BG veterans web site? Moggy
Thanks Mog, Actually, I didn't even think of that. I'll ask them. Looking at the "B-17 story" again it does say "MIA Warsaw (Op Frantic IV) 18/9/44 W/Miller, flak, f/l Russia 4 POW 5RTD; sal & rep" (with the MACR) and then "tran 352BS/301BG Lucera, MIA Ruhland 15/3/45 w/Thornton 1 KIA [which was Sanchez] 9POW" Which in itself gives more information than I thought I had. The specific machine was only with the group for 5 months in total. I'm curious as to what the "sal & rep" was (i.e. how much damage) and what route it took to get from Russia to Italy. (later) Hmm. The Mighty Eigth War Diary (page 349 in my edition) says 8th AF Mission 640 Was Frantic VII. One machine was lost (from the 390 BG) and seven others damaged (one of which being '683). 1248 containers dropped. There is also a picture of a 95BG B-17 landing at Poltava. So the chunk of sheet metal in the museum is quite significant, IMHO. Thanks again, Rob / Kansan
Profile picture for user Dan Johnson

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16 years 7 months

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Thanks Mog, Actually, I didn't even think of that. I'll ask them. Looking at the "B-17 story" again it does say "MIA Warsaw (Op Frantic IV) 18/9/44 W/Miller, flak, f/l Russia 4 POW 5RTD; sal & rep" (with the MACR) and then "tran 352BS/301BG Lucera, MIA Ruhland 15/3/45 w/Thornton 1 KIA [which was Sanchez] 9POW" Which in itself gives more information than I thought I had. The specific machine was only with the group for 5 months in total. I'm curious as to what the "sal & rep" was (i.e. how much damage) and what route it took to get from Russia to Italy. (later) Hmm. The Mighty Eigth War Diary (page 349 in my edition) says 8th AF Mission 640 Was Frantic VII. One machine was lost (from the 390 BG) and seven others damaged (one of which being '683). 1248 containers dropped. There is also a picture of a 95BG B-17 landing at Poltava. So the chunk of sheet metal in the museum is quite significant, IMHO. Thanks again, Rob / Kansan
Almost missed this one. Significant because it was the 17 that Sandy Sanchez lost his life. Apparently the only B17 crewman to have a B17 named for him. Image from the 95th history showing Sanchez sitting on "his" B17. Note he was lost while flying with the 301st out of Italy. Dan
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14 years 6 months

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I suggest you try posting this on the ArmyAirForces.com forum. You might get some more details.
Profile picture for user Jules Horowitz

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14 years 9 months

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Rob, Try [email]j.peters140@comcast.net[/email] he is very knowledgeable about the question that you ask.
Profile picture for user Kansan

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14 years 6 months

Posts: 220

Rob, Try [email]j.peters140@comcast.net[/email] he is very knowledgeable about the question that you ask.
Thanks Jules. Do you want to warn him or shall I just drop him a line with the URL of this forum page? PS Thanks to AT and Moggy for the reference to the 95BG website and Yahoo Group. It's a pretty busy place. I haven't been into AAF for a while. R/K
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14 years 9 months

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Kansan, Just e-mail jim peters
Profile picture for user Kansan

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14 years 6 months

Posts: 220

Kansan, Just e-mail jim peters
Jules, Thanks. I will! PS I think I saw you over on ArmyAirForces.com :-)