Lockheed Electra Found in Papua N. Guinea

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19 years 1 month

Posts: 407

The latest issue of Fly Past mag of July 2005 has an interesting clip about a poss Electra airframe found in the jungles of New Guinea circa 1945 by an Australian patrol.

Plz ck http://www.electranewbritain.com for details about this finding. I think Mr. David Billings efforts to prove a different hypothesis is indeed commendable. A/E Buff/FAH619

Original post

Member for

20 years

Posts: 5,575

It is certainly interesting and he seems to have done his homework. It sounds much more plausible than some of the other theories about Earhart - like she was a spy for the Japanese.

I hope he finds the crash site and proves one way or another who's aircraft it was.

Member for

19 years 1 month

Posts: 407

Lockheed 10 Wreck Found in Papua N. Guinea

Dave:

Mr. David Billings the Australian researcher's theory is that Amelia Earhart Lockheed 10E made a 180 turn at some point. Physical and mental exhaustion could have led to some serious navegational errors making it impossible for them to find Howland island on time.

Plan "B" for Amelia Earhart was to return to the Gilbert Islands but then they were also other possibilities...other islands.A/E Buff/FAH619

Member for

20 years

Posts: 4,561

Reading the Earhart biography at the moment 'The Sound of Wings' if you guys have read it - very good read, lot on George Putnam too who seems to have manipulated her career to ensure success in a Max Clifford stylee...

Upshot so far is whilst a gutsy lass, not much of a pilot compared to some of her contempary female competition....if you havent read the book i heartily endorse it...

Website is superb, the team really seem to know their onions....

TT

Member for

19 years 9 months

Posts: 1,907

I have read the site with interest, the evidence seems convincing, the logic is compelling.

Earhart is known to have flown past the general area on her last flight, the description of a civil aircraft - no military markings of camouflage indicated, and obivious level of jungle regrowth by 1945, and metal fuselage limits the choices of aircraft from the various types known to have operated there.

The most significant reliance of fact is the details of the engine mount tag identifying a P&W SH1 Wasp this "fact" limits the choices significantly.

A recently privately published book in Australia by Robery Kelly has thoroughly researched both the civil and WW2 Military transport operations in the SWPA.(Excellent Book!!)

Rabaul was an important pre-war airport in the PNG area, and there were many Australian pre-war aircraft operating in PNG itself and New Britain due to the gold rush of the 1930's, there were 47 Australian registered aircraft in 1939.

The majority of these types were "European" wooden bi-planes (fox moths, Dragons) or monoplane Fokker FVII's or metal Junkers W34 or Junkers G31, and 3x Ford Trimotors, some of these were re-engined with Wasps for the high altitude and weight lifting required for the gold dredging equipment.

(As a measure of the scale of "airlifts" required by the jungle environment it is recorded that 3947 tons of supplies and equipment were moved in 1932, compared with the combined air transport services of the UK, France and the US carried only 2670 tons of freight in the same period)

The "Buy" British policies of Australia, the cost of "Buying" outside the pound stirling trading block (and the efforts of the society of British Aircraft Manufacturers) all acted to serverly limit the introduction of US made aircraft.

Despite this 2x Lockheed 10's, and 5x Lockheed 14's were operating in and around PNG, these are all accounted for and are not crashed on New Britain.

The Book also identifies aircraft operated by "KLM" & "KNILM" in the adjoining Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) here there WERE many more US Aircraft, DC2's, DC3's and Lockheeds, although these operated "internally" (PNG and New Britain were "Australian territory") or back to Europe and appear not to usually link to Rabaul?

The Invading Japanese caused many of these "KLM" aircraft to escape to Australia, along with US owned aircraft from the Phillipines including a number Beech 18's

None of the above "fleeing aircraft" are recorded as crashing in Rabaul.

The site is correct to then record the RAAF Wirraways which defended Rabaul as it itself was invaded as being the only other likely source of a P&W Wasp, but these were steel tube fuselages and the cockpit would have been directly behind the engine and either totally destroyed or recognisable as the remains of canopies seats etc, the wings would have been camoflauged and there would not have been a second engine.

Japanese "metal/twin engined" airicraft such as Hickory, Dinah would have certainly operated from Rabual but and perhaps in Natural metal finish, but and the engine may well have resembled P&W wasps but not be tagged as such??

The whole sotry sounds very plausable, it would need to be an elaborate fabrication to build such compelling clues.

While that could have been done in more resent times, the site suggests this incident is well remembered by the veterans of the Australian Army unit that was involved, (this should be easy to independantly verify) and the ability to create these clues from "Australia" back in the early 1950's (unless already very knowledgeable about aircraft and Earhart's Lockheed) would have been virtually impossible, (the quality of informative aircraft books and magazines is certainly much improved over what was available in Australia pre 1970) and "GOOGLE" was not available to anyone (other than someone tickling a baby!.)

So I am convinced by arguments put forward on the site, and think its worth further detailed site visits.

Mark Pilkington

Member for

19 years 2 months

Posts: 169

Dave, no big thing - but I think the rumour was that Earhart was tasked with spying on the Japanese movements, rather than spying for the Japanese.

TIGHAR's Earhart project is interesting: http://www.tighar.org/

They have been sifting soil in the excavation of a site on the island of Tinian reputed to be the graves of Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan.

Now Star Dust has been found, and Burt Lancaster, there are not many mysteries of the air remaining I suppose.

Best wishes,

SoG

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20 years

Posts: 5,575

Ah, yes, you're probably right. Either way it sounds too tabloid for me.

What's this about Star Dust and Burt Lancaster? What's that about??

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24 years 2 months

Posts: 3,183

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell,

Star Dust was the British South American Airways Lancastrian that vanished on a flight to (Peru? Chile?) in 1948, leaving only the mysterious final Morse message "STENDEC".

Finally discovered about 5 years ago - almost certainly it had been flying into a headwind so was much less into it's journey than it should have been. As a result when it began to let down into it's destination it flew into the Andes and flew into the back wall of a corrie. The resulting fall of rock and snow buried the remains and hid them from searching planes. She was only discovered when remains started thawing out of a glacier. As for STENDEC, it seems that it is only dot or a dash in the wrong place away from several more plausible messages, so was probably down to morse mutilation.

Burt Lancaster? I think he may be removing the Michael...

Adrian

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19 years

Posts: 220

Burt Lancaster? I think he may be removing the Michael...

Adrian

That's Bill Lancaster. Went missing in 1933 on a record attempt to the Cape in Avro Avian G-ABLK "Southern Cross Minor" (Once owned by a certain bloke called Kingsford-Smith, hence the name) and never seen or heard of again until his remains were discovered by the French Army on a patrol near Reggan, Algeria in February 1962. Read all about it in Ralph Barker's "Verdict on a Lost Flyer" (1969) and a couple of websites about the Sahara, some of which are in French. The remains of the aircraft were recovered from the desert in 1975 and are now in a museum in Brisbane, Australia.

Rob / Kansan

We've still got Nungesser and Coli, Glenn Miller, the "Star Tiger" and a few others to mull over. (see other threads in here!)

Member for

19 years 2 months

Posts: 169

...' he' wasn't at all removing any Michael :-) - a simple senior moment, I did mean Captain BILL Lancaster.

Best wishes,

SoG

Member for

19 years

Posts: 220

TIGHAR's Earhart project is interesting: http://www.tighar.org/

They have been sifting soil in the excavation of a site on the island of Tinian reputed to be the graves of Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan.

SoG

The TIGHAR people are pretty convinced. Although they seem to be convinced they have found the remains of Earhart's body in two places. She may have been the 'Castaway of Gardner Island' (or maybe she wasn't - I've just read two contradicting articles there) and also may have been executed on Tinian.

This will run and run but sadly it'll probably be on the back-burner until some multimillionaire with a thirst for knowledge steps up.

Rob

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 3,183

...' he' wasn't at all removing any Michael :-) - a simple senior moment, I did mean Captain BILL Lancaster.

Best wishes,

SoG

Ooops! Never mind, through this thread we have now found both Bill AND Burt Lancaster!

Don't forget Star Ariel...

Adrian

Member for

18 years 10 months

Posts: 4,796

TIGHAR's Earhart project is interesting: http://www.tighar.org/

KEErist! Those guys are still going??? I thought the general concensus about 10 years ago was they were about as lost an Earhart was?

Member for

19 years 1 month

Posts: 407

Poss Lockheed Electra 10 in PNG?

Mark:

This particular mystery could go on for many more years... after many more findings/expeditions.

And talking about findings, where is the Japanese version in all of these findings concerning crashed aircraft in the area? Did they have Lockheed 10/14 in their inventory at one time?

Does anyone know about a Japanese Aviation website to inquire about this mystery? Poss photos/ID plates of an Lockheed 10E somewhere in the S. Pacific? I'm sure they have some A/E buffs in that side of the world too!!

TIGHAR offers us A/E buffs a Bulletin/Article of a poss Electra found somewhere in the S. Pacific. But after close examination/investigation they are not 100% sure of what type of aircraft that is? Lockheed 10E/Buff/FAH619
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