Hurricanes in the Loch

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Member for

15 years 4 months

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Has anyone heard about the two Hurricanes in Loch Leven in Scotland?

Ali

Original post

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16 years 2 months

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I've heard about them. Don't know if they have been recovered.

Best wishes
Steve P

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15 years 4 months

Posts: 404

I've heard about them. Don't know if they have been recovered.

Best wishes
Steve P

There was V6786 and V7605 that went in and I was wondering if anyone knows if they were recovered at all.

Ali

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 404

I've heard about them. Don't know if they have been recovered.

Best wishes
Steve P

I do have the accident reports of both of these aircraft which quite clearly says that they both went into Loch Leven and I was wondering if anyone out there has got any information as to any recovery operations during or after the war ended. A friend of mine has spoken to Sir David Montgomery, the local Laird, who owns the Loch who has said he was unaware of any crashes during the war in the Loch. The accident reports quite clearly says that they did.

Ali

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16 years 2 months

Posts: 655

Alison,

I've read about them, most probably in the 56 OTU ORB, of which I have a copy. There is nothing in it about a recovery. The area around Loch Leven was used by that unit for low flying training, and tragically, crashes were frequent.

Best wishes
Steve P

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 404

Alison,

I've read about them, most probably in the 56 OTU ORB, of which I have a copy. There is nothing in it about a recovery. The area around Loch Leven was used by that unit for low flying training, and tragically, crashes were frequent.

Best wishes
Steve P

So that means there is a real chance that they are still there then.

Ali :cool:

Profile picture for user HP57

Member for

21 years 9 months

Posts: 1,353

So that means there is a real chance that they are still there then.

Ali :cool:

Ali,

What Steve P said:
Quote
I've read about them, most probably in the 56 OTU ORB, of which I have a copy. There is nothing in it about a recovery. The area around Loch Leven was used by that unit for low flying training, and tragically, crashes were frequent.

Best wishes
Steve P
Unquote

Two Hurricanes in Loch - no news about a recovery = Two Hurricanes still in the Loch.

Only one way to find out, I suggest you start packing your flippers

:rolleyes:
Cheers

Cees

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I did make some brief enquiries but the Loch is looked after by Scottish Natural Heritage and it's difficult to get any kind craft even a canoe on there. SNH don't want anyone on there except if they are fishermen and the Loch being Scotlands national trout fishing center is very heavily policed.

Its FINS and not flippers. A flipper is a dodgy dolphin. :)

Ali

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 655

Hold fire chaps. I have read the ORB for 56 OTU and there is no recovery mentioned, but as the unit would not have been involved in any recovery, there would be no reason to record it.

A better source of info would be the records of the unit that salvaged crashed wrecks in that particular area. Some of these units could go to great lengths to recover aircraft, and Loch Leven is pretty accessible...

Best wishes
Steve P

Profile picture for user HP57

Member for

21 years 9 months

Posts: 1,353

I did make some brief enquiries but the Loch is looked after by Scottish Natural Heritage and it's difficult to get any kind craft even a canoe on there. SNH don't want anyone on there except if they are fishermen and the Loch being Scotlands national trout fishing center is very heavily policed.

Its FINS and not flippers. A flipper is a dodgy dolphin. :)

Ali

Ali,

In my book a fin is something at the back of an aircraft to hang a rudder onto or something stuck on the back of a fish.

Hey, I'm Dutch so shoot me! :D :D

Seriously, if there are any aircraft wrecks in the Loch it would be exciting to find out if they or other wrecks are still down there. Remember Loch Ness.

Good luck

Cees

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 655

I did make some brief enquiries but the Loch is looked after by Scottish Natural Heritage and it's difficult to get any kind craft even a canoe on there. SNH don't want anyone on there except if they are fishermen and the Loch being Scotlands national trout fishing center is very heavily policed.

I thought that might be the case. On the other hand, SNH, like other government departments, is also very mindful of the need to be seen to be doing something of importance. I would have thought that a survey to find out what is in Loch Leven could be deemed as important. Bringing in gear to recover anything, would be a completely different matter. :diablo:

Best wishes
Steve P

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Ali,

In my book a fin is something at the back of an aircraft to hang a rudder onto or something stuck on the back of a fish.

Hey, I'm Dutch so shoot me! :D :D

A fin:

http://www.oceanimaging.com/Images/sharkfin.jpg
;)

Don't think you'll find one of THOSE in Loch Leven, though! :diablo:

Profile picture for user paulmcmillan

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There was V6786 and V7605 that went in and I was wondering if anyone knows if they were recovered at all.

Ali

Hurricane I V6786 of 9 PAFU 07/03/43 Crashed and sank in Loch Leven, about 15 miles SW of Errol at 1315. The pilot is buried in the grounds of Murie House, 3 miles SW of Errol. Sub-Lt(A) Winston Vernon STARK (RNZNVR), of HMS 'Jackdaw' (FAA) - Age 20

Source: "For Your Tomorrow" Vol. II, page 71 by Errol Martyn

V7605 56 OTU 16/04/43 - Pilot?

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Hold fire chaps. I have read the ORB for 56 OTU and there is no recovery mentioned, but as the unit would not have been involved in any recovery, there would be no reason to record it.

A better source of info would be the records of the unit that salvaged crashed wrecks in that particular area. Some of these units could go to great lengths to recover aircraft, and Loch Leven is pretty accessible...

Best wishes
Steve P

What units would be responsible for recoveries in Scotland? I would like to get myself to the public records office and pull the file.

Ali

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15 years 11 months

Posts: 413

Slight aside,

I seem to remember being told once whilst at the Windermere steamboat museum that after the war a number of Sunderlands were scuttled in the lake. Has any one else heard a similar claim? or is it like the mythical squadrons of buried Lancasters?

Steve.

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15 years 4 months

Posts: 404

I thought that might be the case. On the other hand, SNH, like other government departments, is also very mindful of the need to be seen to be doing something of importance. I would have thought that a survey to find out what is in Loch Leven could be deemed as important. Bringing in gear to recover anything, would be a completely different matter. :diablo:

Best wishes
Steve P

I know that someone has already done a survey with Proton Magnetometers but can't get any information as to the results. I did hear that working with SNH was a real pain and I understand that getting permissions for the search were slightly different to getting permissions for a recovery.

Ali

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 404

Slight aside,

I seem to remember being told once whilst at the Windermere steamboat museum that after the war a number of Sunderlands were scuttled in the lake. Has any one else heard a similar claim? or is it like the mythical squadrons of buried Lancasters?

Steve.

I mentioned it in another thread that I have been following the Sunderlands in fresh water story for quite some time and there isn't any evidence of Sunderlands being scuttled there. Lough Erne does have scuttled Sunderlands in it and I did publish a movement card that has got the word scuttled written on it.

Ali

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 404

Hurricane I V6786 of 9 PAFU 07/03/43 Crashed and sank in Loch Leven, about 15 miles SW of Errol at 1315. The pilot is buried in the grounds of Murie House, 3 miles SW of Errol. Sub-Lt(A) Winston Vernon STARK (RNZNVR), of HMS 'Jackdaw' (FAA) - Age 20

Source: "For Your Tomorrow" Vol. II, page 71 by Errol Martyn

V7605 56 OTU 16/04/43 - Pilot?

I got all that from the accident report. V7605 was flown by a Sgt Turner and he survived the accident and I checked on the Commonwealth War Graves web site and he seems to have survived the war too.

The interesting thing about V7605 is an ex 1st Canadian Sqn (then 401 sqn) and there was only one Canadian squadron that flew in the battle of britain so if it's still there then it's quite a historically significant aircraft.

Ali

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A fin:

http://www.oceanimaging.com/Images/sharkfin.jpg
;)

Don't think you'll find one of THOSE in Loch Leven, though! :diablo:

That's why I like diving in the UK. If there was lots of clear vis I may see something that really scares me and puts me off diving. :)

Ali

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I got all that from the accident report. V7605 was flown by a Sgt Turner and he survived the accident and I checked on the Commonwealth War Graves web site and he seems to have survived the war too.

Ali

Allison thanks for that, I don't suppose you have Sgt Turner's other initials, forenames etc thanks

Member for

15 years 4 months

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Allison thanks for that, I don't suppose you have Sgt Turner's other initials, forenames etc thanks

I can do slightly better than that. Here is the accident report.

Ali

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