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By: 26th July 2006 at 12:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-This does ring a bell with me. Will have a look at home later. I seem to recall a photo but I may be wrong.
By: 26th July 2006 at 13:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Wouldn't that cause huge CoG problems?
Best wishes
Steve P
By: 26th July 2006 at 13:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Hi EN830/Daz,
Yes I've heard this somewhere too - the bags would be stout canvas, rather like a sleeping bag with a full face flap to pull over, and fitted with a loop over the cannon barrel fairing to hold them in the correct place on the wing. Presumably there was some sort of strap from the back end to the cannon loop too, to keep the bag in place under heavy braking?
The lucky occupant crawled into the bag on the top surface of the wing, the flap was closed, and presumably he (or she) laid there quietly until all the subsequent noise, gale force wind, and commotion, stopped, and they we let out at their destination.
A somewhat less than comfortable ride, noisy, cold, frightning, etc, but probably preferable to getting caught and turned into a POW.
Presumably the bags would be used in pairs, one per wing, and erks of similar shape and weight would have been paired so as to help keep the plane balanced...though I guess the western desert environment would have trimmed most chaps down to being lean and mean anyway.
I assume it was hoped that violent manoeuvers/combat could be avoided when en route....
Paul F
By: 26th July 2006 at 13:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Yeah, that's what I seem to recall. I'm sure the pic shows the set-up on the port wing.
By: 26th July 2006 at 13:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Maison Blance
The place is Maison Blanche airfield, Algeria, which is just French for 'White House' airfield. As to the rest?
Dunno.
By: 26th July 2006 at 13:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I know the germans used to transport their Erks by putting them in the fuse through the radio hatch.Think a 190 could hold two.Would be interesting to see a Spitbag though.
By: 26th July 2006 at 13:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Have definitely seen images of erks posed in the hatch door of an FW190 - wouldn't fancy either mode of transport myself! :p
By: 26th July 2006 at 14:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-From somewhere I have read that during a transfer flight by a staffel of 190,s they got caught with their knickers down by some Mustangs.Sadly a few were shot down with Erks in them..Or it could be my holey memory again.
By: 26th July 2006 at 18:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Found it!!
From The Spitfire Story (Alfred Price):
Modification devised by Group Captain Barwell, commanding Biggin Hill in 1943, to enable a Spitfire to carry a couple of passengers. The man-sized canvas bag was laid out along the top of the wing. It had a loop to secure the forward part to the cannon barrel, and it was attached to the trailing edge of the wing inside the flap. It is believed the scheme was never air-tested with a live passenger for want of a necessary volunteer!
(pic from Public Archives of Canada)
By: 26th July 2006 at 18:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Wouldn't that cause huge CoG problems?Best wishes
Steve P
I did read of a WAFF that did a circuit of the airfield sat on the tail.
Ali :eek:
By: 26th July 2006 at 18:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I did read of a WAFF that did a circuit of the airfield sat on the tail.Ali :eek:
On Spitfire VB AB910, currently still flying with the BBMF....
By: 27th July 2006 at 03:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-My mate Earl told me a similar story that happened to his mate in the Med.Unfortunately the Erk on the tail didn,t make it.Thanks for the pic Daz.Yes Ali the story is well recorded.Have an old BBC doco with her in it.Told how she was able to straddle the tail fillet and was able to manipulate the rudder controls on the tail.Pilot radioed in of control problems and tower confirmed the problem but not telling the pilot in case he panicked(having a 5foot 1 inch female flying on the back of a spit) and told him to land straight away.Pilot landed without incident and nearly had a heart attack when discovering the control problem.Lucky girl.
By: 27th July 2006 at 08:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-There is a story of an erk flying on the tail of a Spit in the Med, I think it's in G/C Duncan Smith's book Spitfire into Battle, but it's been a while since I read it. That one survived.
There is also a story, I think in the same publication, of an erk managing to fly a Spitfire with ONLY the aid of the pilot's notes (and having never had a flying lesson in his life prior to the event!). He'd decided to try and fix some unserviceable Spits at another airfield, so borrowed a Spit, flew there, did the job, and flew back. I seem to recall he was court-martialled for it, however!
By: 27th July 2006 at 09:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-On Spitfire VB AB910, currently still flying with the BBMF....
She must be exhausted.
By: 27th July 2006 at 09:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-;)
By: 27th July 2006 at 10:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-In 1968 Margaret Horton, who had made the amazing circuit on AB910, posed for the Telegraph Magazine on her former steed.
At that time I wrote to here to enquire if any photos had been taken at the time of her flight. She responded that to her knowledge none were...but memory fades.
Research in Canada, in a pilot's personal album, produced a couple of period shots of a WAAF in leather jerkin standing by a Spitfire. In the first case standing by the tail with one of those small serials at the top of the tail band and the front of the code visible and in the second case standing by the cockpit with the remainder of the code visible.
AB910 MV- T (for trouble). On the reverse of the shots was the simple inscription in pencil. 'Margaret Horton - Aircrew'.
53 OTU. A future paint scheme for AB910 perhaps?
Mark
By: 27th July 2006 at 10:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-The Margaret Horton incident was recalled in a documentary from the 1980s (it was simply entitled 'Spitfire'), in which she was interviewed by Raymond Baxter. Despite her advancing years, Ms Horton was coaxed into the position over the tail she was in when AB910 went up!
By: 27th July 2006 at 11:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Cheers guys.You can still see that sparkle in her eyes.Daz I too remember the story of the Erk who flew the spit.Flypast?????Had a little bit of training on the squadron hack,a captured Italian biplane I think before hand.Flew the spit to a nearby airfield to replace sparkplugs I think.Only read the first part of the story.
By: 27th July 2006 at 12:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Not sure about the mention of the Italian biplane in the other book, but I'll see if I can dig my old copy out over the weekend and have a look.
By: 27th July 2006 at 16:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-A gentleman with the name of Gregs Farrish or Parrish, IIRC - yes, Gregs, not Greg! Now sadly deceased.
The Raymond Baxter documentary, again IIRC, was made in about 1974. Certainly pre-September 1982, as Douglas Bader was interviewed - talking about what happened if you put your nose down and the "gravy" went to the top of the carburettor...
Adrian
Posts: 4,508
By: EN830 - 26th July 2006 at 12:48
I came across this badly written account on an obscure website, anyone else ever heard of this. Did they really try to stuff a couple of erks into bags attached to the wings of a Spitfire to evacuate them?