Spitfire ID from Data Plate?

Read the forum code of contact

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 506

I came home from Legends to find that my neighbour has given me a box full of bits from a local Spitfire crash site - the only serial I can find is a data plate with the number:

GAL/6S/84358

Is anyone able to work out the identity of this aircraft? Or what part of the aircraft this plate might have come from?

Thanks chaps

Zwit

Original post

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 10,029

Repaired or Sub contracted part or sub-assembly from General Aircraft Limited (GAL) to Supermarine division (6S). There are many plates on a Spitfire.

Apart from occasionally writing the the RAF serial in pencil on the rear of the plate they are only indicative of the position in the production run by comparison with the known data base generated by recent times inspections.

Mark

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 2,598

Repaired or Sub contracted part or sub-assembly from General Aircraft Limited (GAL) to Supermarine division (6S). There are many plates on a Spitfire.

Apart from occasionally writing the the RAF serial in pencil on the rear of the plate they are only indicative of the position in the production run by comparison with the known data base generated by recent times inspections.

Mark

Where is 'local' it might help and do you have a year (ish)

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 506

Thanks as ever gentlemen. :)

Paul, 'local' is Biggin Hill, and I'm only guessing, but I think it's Battle of Britain period.

Details a 'bit' sketchy at the moment, and the neighbour who gave me the stuff is on hols...

Here's the plate:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7738.jpg

Can anyone identify any of these parts?

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7718.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7720.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7727.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7728.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7726.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7725.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7721.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7731.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7729.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7737.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7734.jpg

Is there a list of losses in the Biggin Hill area?

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 10,029

Your plate is a Mod (modification) plate.

The numbers in the boxes are the mods incorporated in the part.

Please advise the mod numbers and I will check what they are. This will locate the the area of the assembly.

What is the date on the ammunition?

Mark

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 8,464

Apart from the plate, there is little to positively identify any of it as Spitfire. The exception is the hook you have shown, which holds down the battery.

I noticed a cowling fastener ring, and a Fairey fastener receptacle, which would have retained the top tank cover.

Bruce

Member for

17 years 4 months

Posts: 1,060

Some of the ammo is pistol cartridges, probably .45 or 9mm, Im not too hot on those, but the others are definately .303, the tray u have in your hand Ive counted 3 possibly 4 BLANK .303 cases, which will only be from a rifle, as BLANK .303 for various MG's had a balsa wood head which meant that any .303 calibre MG needed a special "masher" barrel in order to destroy the balsa wood to maintain gas operation of the working parts. One thing I do suggest you do, is isolate the .303 rounds with the heads still on them and have them checked to make sure their safe. Bex

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 506

Your plate is a Mod (modification) plate.

The numbers in the boxes are the mods incorporated in the part.

Please advise the mod numbers and I will check what they are. This will locate the the area of the assembly.

What is the date on the ammunition?

Mark

The mod number in column 1 is A72 and on the same line in column 3 it says M229

I'll check the ammo dating when I get home tonight

couple more bits here - anything recognsable? The round plate has fast - slow engraved on it, some kind of indicator or adjuster?
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7735.jpg

Thanks (everyone)

Zwit

Member for

18 years 3 months

Posts: 2,025

Looks like a threepenny bit in the last one; pilots wages?

Member for

18 years 2 months

Posts: 1,270

The segment of fibre gear wheel is unique to BTH magnetos, but early and late types look the same.

Does anybody know why some of the 0.303 rounds are blanks?

Pete

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 10,029

Mod 229 is associated with 'Fixed Aileron Trimming Tab'.

In theory you can reasonably assume the plate is from an Aileron from a Seafire IB, IIC, III or XV.

Mark

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 609

The segment of fibre gear wheel is unique to BTH magnetos, but early and late types look the same.

Does anybody know why some of the 0.303 rounds are blanks?

Pete

I think that very little on that tray of ammo is related to the Spitfire. There is some AA shell shrapnel, what seem to be 9mm cases, fired .303 heads, blanks and undamaged .303 bullets that I would bet are unrelated to the Spitfire. As for the lead musket balls....well....I knew things were desperate in 1940....but...!!!! :D

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 506

Thanks Mark12, very interesting, but I'm left pondering why an armed seafire would be in the ground in Biggin Hill? Could the same mod be incorporated on a Spitfire? Would you agree it looks a bit like the plate you sometimes see in a spitfire's wheel well?

By the way, in answer to your question, the (exploded) ammo ranges from 1937-1941, I haven't found anything later than that.

Merlin Pete, the Spitfire bits in my last photo were in a bag together, but I don't think everything else came out of the same hole, the blanks could just be home guard or local defence forces cast-offs...? When my neighbour comes back from hols I can ask him more about the source.

Thanks all :)

Zwit

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 10,029

Thanks Mark12, very interesting, but I'm left pondering why an armed seafire would be in the ground in Biggin Hill? Could the same mod be incorporated on a Spitfire? Would you agree it looks a bit like the plate you sometimes see in a spitfire's wheel well?

By the way, in answer to your question, the (exploded) ammo ranges from 1937-1941, I haven't found anything later than that.

Zwit

Yes...and in many other places on a Spitfire. It is a standard plate with its own Supermarine drawing number.

The mod, if we are interpreting the plate correctly, was Seafire specific. That does not mean that say in a parts recovery operation at a CRO that it would not also service the need of a Spitfire.

Mark

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 506

Nothing's ever simple is it! Thanks for the help.

Any ideas as to the brass disc with fast-slow adjustment markings on it? - seen here on the right.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7736.jpg

What about the piece on the left here:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7749.jpg
Lower part of the crankcase on a merlin? No idea about the bit on the right.

and sorry for all the questions!

Member for

17 years 4 months

Posts: 1,060

Tangmere & MerlinPete, if u both read my post #7 I gave an explaination of the use of .303 blank rounds ( i used to use both rifle & MG blanks) Rifle blanks cannot be used in a .303 calibre MG as they will jam. Bex

Member for

18 years 2 months

Posts: 1,270

Nothing's ever simple is it! Thanks for the help.

Any ideas as to the brass disc with fast-slow adjustment markings on it? - seen here on the right.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7736.jpg

What about the piece on the left here:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7749.jpg
Lower part of the crankcase on a merlin? No idea about the bit on the right.

and sorry for all the questions!

The part on the right is the magneto flange attached to part of the wheelcase. The position of the small steel screw next to the mounting lug means that this is a BTH C1SE-12S or C5SE-12S so if the aircraft is a Spitfire then it cannot in theory be later than a MkV, or a Seafire I, II or III

Incidentally, it is the port side mag ;)

Pete

Attachments

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 10,029

In photo 7, is the casting in the hand aluminium or perhaps lead?

One of my old Seafires had a lead mass damper clamped to the the spade grip to assist the pilot / reduce force effect transmission etc

This might be a Seafire thing.

Mark

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 506

In photo 7, is the casting in the hand aluminium or perhaps lead?

One of my old Seafires had a lead mass damper clamped to the the spade grip to assist the pilot / reduce force effect transmission etc

This might be a Seafire thing.

Mark

Nah, it's a heavy cast(?) iron piece - it remined me of a bomb attachment kind of thing, but it was in the box of mixed stuff so I have no idea of it's origin. Some of the stuff I was given looks like somebody's childhood shrapnel collection i.e. pieces of bomb casing, the bits that screw in the noses of bombs (but shattered) pieces of grenade etc... There is a lead weigth included in the box, but I thought it looked decidedly un-aircraft-like. here it is:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/zwitterfilms/IMG_7717-1.jpg

I love the "one of my old Seafires" bit :D

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 506

The part on the right is the magneto flange attached to part of the wheelcase. The position of the small steel screw next to the mounting lug means that this is a BTH C1SE-12S or C5SE-12S so if the aircraft is a Spitfire then it cannot in theory be later than a MkV, or a Seafire I, II or III

Incidentally, it is the port side mag ;)

Pete

Blimey Pete! I take it you know a bit about these then? ;)
Thanks

Member for

18 years 2 months

Posts: 1,270

Blimey Pete! I take it you know a bit about these then? ;)
Thanks

Well, sort of, but to be fair I had to look at our magnetos to check which type it was!
It`s nice to be able to help sort out a mystery now and again.
The other bit is crankcase as you said by the way.

Pete