Barton(Beds) Aerodrome

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Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 867

How about the British Library in London?? ...they do try to have at least one copy of every published book

It's actually a legal requirement for copyright that a copy of every book published in the UK is lodged in the Libraries of the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge, the National Library of Scotland, the Library of Trinity College Dublin and the National Library of Wales. I know this is being pedantic, but the actual British Library 'depot' is in Yorkshire, which means that the London Library - near Kings Cross as you say - would have to order a copy down for you - so you cannot just 'turn up and see it'!

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 114

James the bod in Luton Library said ...'all that stuff is off limits at the minute' and then you need to pre book it all..."

I did run across the link to BLARS this morning by accident so yep they look like the guys to chase for help. From what I can find out they work out of Bedford Library and not Luton. I will put an email together over the next day or two outlying what I know/what I would like to find out and get if off to them, I also found a link to Ampthill Archeological Society which is not a great distance away.

Someone has let me know that there was an Ordnance Survey map update done in 36 so that should held in the county archives as well.

Graham they listed 6 books for Arthur Ord-Hume but they came from the families’ musical side... I have had a PM from a member that’s still in contact with Arthur Ord-Hume ( W J G and not W through a Ouija board I hope!) so maybe that will get me a bit further.

never thought of the British Library Baz, quick search lists..

Ord-Hume...
British commercial aircraft : their evolution, development and performance 1920-1940
British light aeroplanes : their evolution, development and perfection, 1920-1940
Flight on frail wings : petrol, dope and those sounds of singing wires : being the second volume of a personal account of building and flying your own aeroplane in post-war England and including tales of numerous adventures involving flying machines of various types
Perpetual motion : the history of an obsession??

Latimer-Needham....
Aircraft Design
Refuelling in flight : a treatise based substantially upon a lecture delivered before the Society of Automotive Engineers, Detroit, U.S.A., 13 January, 1949Sailplanes : their design, construction and pilotage

JDK they also list having 920,000 journal and newspaper titles so i guess they should have Airoplane?

I also just noticed that in the 1936 picture of the Buzzard (above) its shows the flying club buildings but not the Luton Aircraft hangers that should be behind them on the track you can clearly see?... something does not tie there!! :eek: could the 'garges' have been Luton Aircraft's home before the hangers were built ????

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16 years 10 months

Posts: 941

Graham, Hi,
Ref post #3 on this thread (and I'm not trying to hijack the thread, or cause the dreaded 'thread-drift' - honest!!!).
If Barton (or however variously written) was taken over by the RAF in WW2, I note that it is not mentioned in the 1990 Omnibus Edition of Willis & Hollis. Was it known by any other name, or did the fact that it was an ATA airfield mean that, strictly speaking, it was not 'military'? Just a minor 'nit-pick'.
Rgds
Resmoroh

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 114

nutha question guys.... :)

Surely there must be some sort of 'register' of who currently owns what... the CCA files are great to get dates of build/reg but woefully lacking of what and where an aircraft did after that?

also ..'Cancellation date' what’s the criterion for cancellation? It’s defiantly not being destroyed!

Member for

20 years 6 months

Posts: 8,195

James the bod in Luton Library said ...'all that stuff is off limits at the minute' and then you need to pre book it all..."

Shesh. Poor effort. See the notes re the inter library loan, which can be taken through your local library. (Personally, I'd also lodge a formal complaint about his poor service - they need the feedback to manage.) Go to a better library - and BLARS is the better than that too.
I did run across the link to BLARS this morning by accident so yep they look like the guys to chase for help. From what I can find out they work out of Bedford Library and not Luton. I will put an email together...

NO! TALK to them. Either in person, or by phone. e-mail is like junk mail in these circs - only use it if you have no alternative. Even a proper letter is better.

Everyone thinks they are really, really busy and they don't have time to deal with extra bright ideas, research or problems. BLARS will fit this profile, and they'll also get screeds of e-mails from every loose loony in the county.

However, IF you talk to them, common courtesy dictates a more 'bespoke' and polite response. e-mail can get a form response - and probably deserves it too.

...Ampthill Archeological Society which is not a great distance away.

I'm not sure archaeological organisations are going to be much help - it's not really their field, but you may be lucky.
Graham they listed 6 books for Arthur Ord-Hume but they came from the families’ musical side... I have had a PM from a member that’s still in contact with Arthur Ord-Hume

We (MMP Books) will be publishing a book by Arthur shortly. Roger, one of our other Eds is in touch with him also.
JDK they also list having 920,000 journal and newspaper titles so i guess they should have Airoplane?

Probably. I'd assume it would be at the British Newspaper Library at Collindale. But if I were you I'd go to Old Warden.

Cheers,

PS - I'm sure your spelling and punctuation is much better in letters and even e-mails to these organisations - and people like Arthur expect good English when communicated with..
. ;)

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 867

If Barton (or however variously written) was taken over by the RAF in WW2, I note that it is not mentioned in the 1990 Omnibus Edition of Willis & Hollis. Was it known by any other name, or did the fact that it was an ATA airfield mean that, strictly speaking, it was not 'military'?

Almost certainly - I've never quite been certain of the W&H criteria for inclusion, but I suspect you are right - however, they don't include Luton which was ATA, (and had at least one RAF unit there for a while) so that shoots that theory down I suppose!

Member for

16 years 10 months

Posts: 941

Graham,
Tks dat! As I surmised - yet another 'grey area'!!

JDK/Jenna,
Having been involved in the archaeology side of things it is my experience that, if you want to chase up something as recent as WW2 (etc) you need to find an archaeological organisation (either run by the Local Authority, or a Voluntary Body) that has a Modern/Industrial Archaeology specialist (or specialists). They do exist!!! Some archaeological organisations/societies reckon that anything after the Romans is, strictly speaking, not archaeology but history (I fell about at JDK's description of 'loonies poring over Norman documents'!). Like most organisations, if you can excite the interest of the person you're phoning/writing/emailing then you're halfway there. This is an art-form in itself. JDK is right - go knock on doors!!!!!!!!! It will produce results (or if they don't know, they will know who does!).
HTH
Resmoroh

Member for

20 years 6 months

Posts: 8,195

(I fell about at JDK's description of 'loonies poring over Norman documents'!)...

And if the wind is in the wrong direction, I can still smell some of them 12,000 miles behind me... ;)

Member for

17 years 6 months

Posts: 1,433

nutha question guys.... :)

Surely there must be some sort of 'register' of who currently owns what... the CCA files are great to get dates of build/reg but woefully lacking of what and where an aircraft did after that?

also ..'Cancellation date' what’s the criterion for cancellation? It’s defiantly not being destroyed!

The CAA files at G-INFO (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1) are actually pretty accurate at giving dates of registration (pre-flight), names and addresses of owners of individual aeroplanes, and sadly most of their "records cancelled" do coincide with the demise of the aeroplanes.

Most of the lightweight wooden Marendaz and Luton aeroplanes sadly didn't survive WW2 and many that did were subsequently destroyed in the 1950s and early 1960s when many issues of rot, fungal attack and glue failure spelled the end for many wooden aeroplanes.

I'm out of the country for a few days but have some further information for you when I get back to the good old (chilly) UK!

Steve

PS In the meantime, a typical pre-WW2 'into wind' type airfield with no marked runways looks like this! (from a typical pre-WW2 'into wind' type aeroplane!)

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/kingpinmedia/29102007073.jpg

Member for

19 years 1 month

Posts: 6,043

I know this is being pedantic, but the actual British Library 'depot' is in Yorkshire, which means that the London Library - near Kings Cross as you say - would have to order a copy down for you - so you cannot just 'turn up and see it'!

Also pedantic :D but I did not say just 'turn up',obviously one would check with them first and under some circumstances they might send a book to your local library to read on the premises.I only mentioned London because may be reasonably close to Jenna ;)

cheers baz

Member for

19 years 1 month

Posts: 6,043

Graham, Hi,
Ref post #3 on this thread (and I'm not trying to hijack the thread, or cause the dreaded 'thread-drift' - honest!!!).
If Barton (or however variously written) was taken over by the RAF in WW2, I note that it is not mentioned in the 1990 Omnibus Edition of Willis & Hollis. Was it known by any other name, or did the fact that it was an ATA airfield mean that, strictly speaking, it was not 'military'? Just a minor 'nit-pick'.
Rgds
Resmoroh

I like 'thread drift' :D,quite a few airfields are missing from W &H all of which I think were originally 'civvy',but I agree a bit 'puzzling' as to the criteria for inclusion.

cheers baz

Member for

18 years 5 months

Posts: 4

Jenna,

Check your PM's.

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 114

anybody come across:

British homebuilt aircraft since 1920 : including limited production light aircraft, man powered aircraft, gliders, rotorcraft, balloons and airships / by Ken Ellis.

British homebuilt aircraft since 1920 / compiled by Ken Ellis.

British built aircraft / Ron Smith.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 16,832

I like 'thread drift'

Thread drift within aviation topics can be fascinating.

What we all hate is thread drift from aviation into politics and religion. Thankfully very rare here in Historic.

Give yourselves all a slap on the back.

Moggy
Moderator

This has been, and still is, a fascinating thread.

Member for

20 years

Posts: 3,902

For a big empty grass field, abandoned 50 years ago, this is a fast-moving thread;- I can hardly wait for the next revelation!

Real enthusiasm is very infectious :D

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 16,832

Calm down Propstrike.

No cause to get over stimulated. They'll have you on Prozac before you know it.

Ooops - thread drift. Sorry.

Moggy

Member for

20 years

Posts: 3,902

I have the Ken Ellis title 'British Homebuilt Aircraft'.
What do you need to know?

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 114

Thread drift within aviation topics can be fascinating.

What we all hate is thread drift from aviation into politics and religion. Thankfully very rare here in Historic.

Give yourselves all a slap on the back.

Moggy
Moderator

This has been, and still is, a fascinating thread.

I have to agree a bit of deviation is good for you :)
I am a member of a lot of forums through my work/business and I have to say this is without doubt one of the most civilized, and well behaved… quite like here!

I have the Ken Ellis title 'British Homebuilt Aircraft'.
What do you need to know?

oooo, I have been told that he did a volume covering this area and that it has information about Barton(Beds) airfield in it.

The person was unable to remember what it was but he remembers it was there!

Member for

15 years 9 months

Posts: 8

British Built Aircraft

anybody come across:

British homebuilt aircraft since 1920 : including limited production light aircraft, man powered aircraft, gliders, rotorcraft, balloons and airships / by Ken Ellis.

British homebuilt aircraft since 1920 / compiled by Ken Ellis.

British built aircraft / Ron Smith.

I am the author of British Built Aircraft. Would you like me to forward a text extract on Barton-le-Clay?

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 114

hi there...

any information you can supply would be greatly appreciated,

I am especially keen to find out the original airfield 'Identification Code' as its defiantly NOT X2BA as I was led to beleive....