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By: - 16th December 2008 at 21:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
According to Morgan and Shacklady - Spitfire The History (three photo captions):
DP851, ex prototype F Mk IV, was used as the prototype F21
PP139, the production prototype F21 Victor (in the text also called "the true prototype")
LA187, first production F21 ...
In the B/W photo, PP139 looks like it has the standard camo;
fin flash with a "narrow white center",
C1 roundel on the fuselage and an "encircled P" between the roundel and the serial,
B roundel on upper wing surface,
lower wing surface not seen (C roundel ?).
Christer
By: - 16th December 2008 at 21:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
When you say standard camoflage do you mean dark sea grey and dark green upper surfaces with medium sea grey undersurfaces?
By: - 16th December 2008 at 22:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Points of interest.
1) Extended wing tips.
2) Streamline experimental windscreen similar to Seafire XVIII & 47.
3) Proto 'P'.
4) Anti Glare panel on upper image.
5) 'Lump' on top cowling.
6) Note different fin/rudder configurations in two images.
7) Up sweep of camou line on rudder of lower image.
Mark
By: - 16th December 2008 at 22:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thank you Mark. Can you confirm if i am right with the camo colours above?
By: - 16th December 2008 at 22:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The photo is B/W making it difficult to tell but I think so. The alternative to dark sea grey would be brown, right? That would look darker on a B/W photo compared to dark sea grey.
Christer
Edited: I've been looking at the same photo (in flight) as Mark 12 posted.
By: - 16th December 2008 at 22:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thank you Mark. Can you confirm if i am right with the camo colours above?
No I can't.
It may be Brown/Green with Yellow under surfaces.
This will need more research.
Mk V...speak.
Mark
By: - 16th December 2008 at 22:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Best judgement reading AMO A.864/44 to AP 2656A
Private Venture and Prototype aircraft:
Upper surfaces: to rôle of aircraft...This will be Dark Green/Ocean Grey.
Under surfaces: Yellow.
Mark
By: - 16th December 2008 at 22:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Comparing the shade of the underside to the P marking it looks lighter which to me makes yellow unlikely. I look forward to seing what others make of this.
By: - 16th December 2008 at 22:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The prototype marking looks to be the same shade as the yellow outer ring of the fuselage roundel.
Spitfire XIX PS915 wore the markings of a prototype (Mk.XIV?) for a number of years. Beautiful scheme, in my opinion. Was probably very similar to the one above.
By: - 16th December 2008 at 22:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A quick shufti on Airliners.net brings up several decent images:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Supermarine-389-Spitfire/1202405/M/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Supermarine-389-Spitfire/0576335/M/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Supermarine-389-Spitfire/0851074/M/
By: - 16th December 2008 at 23:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No I can't.On recollection from a project years ago - I agree with your later suggestion: Ocean Grey/Dark Green over Yellow. Note all surfaces are fairly satin in finish with a very distinct sheen.It may be Brown/Green with Yellow under surfaces.
This will need more research.
Mk V...speak.
Mark
Spitfire XIX PS915 wore the markings of a prototype (Mk.XIV?) for a number of years.Ah yes thats the one - my contribution to that, back in 1991 (?) was making her a new stern post. The work was carrried out at Hurn.
By: - 16th December 2008 at 23:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thank you all for the help. The models should be on my bench pretty soon so i will post some photos in the model section.
The only other question i have is there seems to be some form of badge on the fin in the first photo. Any idea what it could be?
By: - 16th December 2008 at 23:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't see anything on the fin apart from the normal flash. There is a W/T bonding marking on the rudder.
The only other question i have is there seems to be some form of badge on the fin in the first photo. Any idea what it could be?
One thing that is unusual is the camou pattern around the nose (sbd side).
By: - 17th December 2008 at 00:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
4) Anti Glare panel on upper image.
Going by the hard shadow on the rear fuselage from the fin and rudder, maybe that 'anti-glare' is actually a shadow from the windscreen?
By: - 17th December 2008 at 01:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It doesnt look like an anti glare panel to me, it seems to terminate just in front of the bulge on the top.
Does anyone know what that bulge is for?
By: - 17th December 2008 at 12:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Going by the hard shadow on the rear fuselage from the fin and rudder, maybe that 'anti-glare' is actually a shadow from the windscreen?
Going by the hard shadow on the rear fuselage from the fin and rudder, we can see that the sun is very low and just off to port a few degrees casting a long shadow of the upper starboard rear fuselage. The 'anti glare panel' however is true to the central datum. Indeed I suspect that much of the experimental windshield and modified canopy frame is also painted black, for development purposes, and has yet to be applied in the ground shot.
Incidentally the Seafire 47, which ended up with this screen, was painted with an anti glare panel in service.
Mark
By: - 17th December 2008 at 12:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It doesnt look like an anti glare panel to me, it seems to terminate just in front of the bulge on the top.Does anyone know what that bulge is for?
Ollie,
In you mind draw a line from the top of the rudder to the tip of the shadow of the fin on the fuselage. Now draw a line from the top of the windscreen parallel to it...which should hit the mid cowling 'shadow' tip.
It is an anti glare panel.
The bulge is probably an air intake for the compressor mounted on the auxiliary gearbox.
Mark
By: - 17th December 2008 at 16:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Incidentally, the first iteration of the streamlined screen and canopy, that came in to service on the Seafire XVII and later on the Seafire 47 was heavily criticised by Jeffrey Quill. Both side panels of the screen were armoured, unlike the conventional internal armoured main stream Spitfire screen. Reflections et al were pronounced OK for 'weekend warriors' of the RNVR but pretty useless for serious fighting.
With the advent of the looming Korean War, that would possible see the Seafire 47 in to battle, a rapid programme of fitting revised screens and canopies was instigated. This introduced an additional panel at the top of the screen, as seen on the Mk 21 proto above, and changed the steepened angle of the screen to canopy engagement back to or close to the conventional Spitfire set-up.
Mark
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By: ollieholmes - 16th December 2008 at 21:12
Does anyone have photos or some form of referance for what markings and colours the prototype Mk21 PP139 wore? Ive found a photo of LA187 which is labelled as being a prototype but idealy im looking for a photo of PP139.