By: AlanR
- 6th May 2012 at 15:36Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There was a Harrier used as a test rig for the Plenium chamber
experiments that was hung from a gantry.
The latest Aero***** magazine has a photo of it.
mmitch.
Yes I remember seeing that.
I found some pictures and scanned them. I make no excuses on their quality.
I was only using an Instamatic type camera, and the weather was awful. Circa 1983
By: Meddle
- 28th January 2015 at 11:07Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm bumping an old thread.
Firstly, Bing maps appears to have the most up to date imagery of the area mentioned in the previous pages and there is nothing left at all. Even on Google maps there are unidentified piles of junk;
Following on from previous posts, am I right in thinking there was TSR-2 remains on the island until the '90s? If so, were any of these recovered and saved? It would be a shame if such material made it all the way through the '90s and then ended up scrapped after all. Also, this thread highlights the fact that the chap from Foulness on the TSR-2 documentary downplayed the quantity of TSR-2 material left on site. I recall he says words to the effect of 'only having a few small bits left', whereas the images in this thread from 1993 suggest quite a lot of the airframe(s) remained on site.
By: charliehunt
- 28th January 2015 at 11:25Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think was a general conspiracy to down play anything TSR2 for decades! All very sad.
New
Posts: 3,208
By: Mike J
- 28th January 2015 at 11:46Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I remember that when we re-assembled XR222 at Duxford in 1978 after it arrived from Cranfield, we were told that quite a bit of the first prototype, XR219, still survived at Foulness.
By: Trolly Aux
- 28th January 2015 at 11:57Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
At one point I was told that parts of the TSR2 on Foulness were going to the museum at Tilbury Fort but were destroyed before they could be removed, back in the early 90s I think, sure I was shown a photo of a wing tip sitting on the Island too
By: Bunsen Honeydew
- 28th January 2015 at 13:04Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
BLOWN UP !
As far as I'm aware all the remaining TSR2 items on Foulness and Pendine were scrapped by Hanningfield Metals and they shredded the lot. They refused point blank to let anyone have any bits which to me points to an order from MoD. Hanningfields were normally very helpful to museums and collectors.
There was a rumour that when the contents of Quedgely were sold that the parts to make a complete TSR2 were bought by a very wealthy collector
By: Sabrejet
- 28th January 2015 at 13:08Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As far as I'm aware all the remaining TSR2 items on Foulness and Pendine were scrapped by Hanningfield Metals and they shredded the lot. They refused point blank to let anyone have any bits which to me points to an order from MoD. Hanningfields were normally very helpful to museums and collectors.
There was a rumour that when the contents of Quedgely were sold that the parts to make a complete TSR2 were bought by a very wealthy collector
By: Meddle
- 28th January 2015 at 19:31Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There was a rumour that when the contents of Quedgely were sold that the parts to make a complete TSR2 were bought by a very wealthy collector
To quote an earlier thread;
In the mid 90's I picked up two small TSR 2 items from an Aerojumble (Shoreham). In about 1997-8-9 I noticed in Aeroplane Monthly Hangers stores section, a wanted advert requesting TSR 2 bits. Noting that the bits I had were not really in my line of collecting but keen to see them go to a good home I phoned the number. The guy on the other end of the phone told my the following story;-
He run a company which was aviation related and sometimes touched on the warbird scene. During one of these warbird scene moments he had recently (within a month or so of that time) come across a TSR 2 forward fuse in a scrap yard covered by a tarpaulin. I asked if this was the forward fuse which was at the time at Farnborough/Brooklands. He said no and he believed it was the forward fuse of XR219! He would not tell me the location but did let slip the yard specialised in handling stainless steel. His advert and attitude of not telling anybody the location was intended to see if enough bits were available so that he (and only he) could put together a reasonable display standard item. He took my name address and told me he would get back to me... but never did. I've since lost the phone number.
At the time I was working on Nimrod MRA4 and hence had regular contact with Warton. So I passed the story on to the BAe North West Heritage group. They phoned the number and got the same story and response. They were sufficiently interested to contact Shoeburyness to try to track down just who bought the remains of XR219 when it went up for disposal. Although I don't think they could do this, but Shoeburyness "confirmed" that XR219 was shredded by the scrapy in the late 70's.
Some time later I was reading a book on which I think was called "The history of British Aerospace A Proud Heritage" (or something like that), which was published in the mid/late 80's and hidden await in the text it makes the claim that the scrap yard that handled XR219 was quietly storing significant portions of the aircraft.
Now, there is never any smoke without fire....... (Has anyone got the back issue of Aeroplane Monthly from either 1997/8/9 with that phone number?)
As for other TSR 2 bits, I understand that the Brian Trubshaw horde which was once at Little Rissington consisting of bits from Shoeburyness/Pendine (engines mainly, bit possibly wings as well?) has been disposed of by Marine Salvage of Southampton.... with some bits going to collections and other going for scrap. When RAF Quedgeley/Henlow/Cardington were cleared in the 80's & 90's a significant number of TSR 2 bits were found, most if not all of which were passed to Cosford. The guys at Cosford noted that some of these bits were actually from their TSR2 XR220 (apparently the cropped wires still on the equipment matched perfectly those on the aircraft.... when the aircraft was stripped in the 60's why did they disconnect on the plugs!).
I would be surprised if anything TSR 2 was at Aston Down. I have been connected with Aston Down in one way or another from 1983 to the present day. Although large quantities of aircraft/engine jigs and tools were stored there, on both professional visits (both working for RR and BAe) to some of the hangers and my time connected with gliding, I saw very few aircraft parts and even then these were test parts such as the fatigue test Phantom. However it was the sort of place where stuff could get lost for years...... some Gloster Javelin wing and fuse jigs could still be found there up until the late 1980's! ...so I could be wrong.
NAM pulled together a variety of TSR2 items from around the UK to join the items that it already displays; the Brooklands cockpit is still on site – albeit covered over at the moment to protect it from the elements.
By: Dean W
- 28th January 2015 at 22:18Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thought it might be interesting to share this pic of a MiG-23 I shot at Hanningfield Metals back in April 2009. Having made numerous trips down there as a kid to see the Phantoms, Buccs, Canberras etc. I took a random trip there to see if there was anything of any interest still at the site. The answer was no, just random metal, until I walked around a corner and found this..
[ATTACH=CONFIG]234935[/ATTACH]
I believe it is 50 red, formerly of the Russian Air Force.
By: minimans
- 28th January 2015 at 23:52Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thought it might be interesting to share this pic of a MiG-23 I shot at Hanningfield Metals back in April 2009. Having made numerous trips down there as a kid to see the Phantoms, Buccs, Canberras etc. I took a random trip there to see if there was anything of any interest still at the site. The answer was no, just random metal, until I walked around a corner and found this..
[ATTACH=CONFIG]234935[/ATTACH]
I believe it is 50 red, formerly of the Russian Air Force.
Blimey when i read it the first time I thought you said MIG-23 I shot down................................................
By: Meddle
- 29th January 2015 at 12:48Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Like all good stories, there appears to be an easy and a complicated solution, based upon what I've read. Is the cockpit section at Brooklands off of XR219, or another? It sounds like parts of XR219, once removed from Foulness, were heisted out of the scrappies contrary to the official story (be it that there was nothing left at Foulness to scrap or that Hanningfield metals got to it). Given the range of photos available from Hanningfield metals over the years, do any contain conclusive evidence of XR219?
I've noticed that a similar thread of rumour and conspiracy surrounds the Avro Arrow. Somebody's brother's flight instructor once saw half an Arrow in the back of a hangar in the '80s etc etc...
By: TwinOtter23
- 29th January 2015 at 13:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In Damien Burke’s excellent TSR2 book, the cockpit is described as: “Test forebody T5 …” and that it was “….Rescued from the Farnborough dump in 1992.”
Posts: 4,996
By: AlanR - 6th May 2012 at 15:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes I remember seeing that.
I found some pictures and scanned them. I make no excuses on their quality.
I was only using an Instamatic type camera, and the weather was awful. Circa 1983
Posts: 61
By: alvampman - 6th May 2012 at 20:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Have a look at for better pictures.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alanwz581/page12/
Alan
Posts: 4,996
By: AlanR - 6th May 2012 at 21:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nice set of pictures. Have they all been disposed of now ?
Posts: 1,613
By: Meddle - 28th January 2015 at 11:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm bumping an old thread.
Firstly, Bing maps appears to have the most up to date imagery of the area mentioned in the previous pages and there is nothing left at all. Even on Google maps there are unidentified piles of junk;
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=sm22fnh2bk95&lvl=19&sty=b&eo=0&q=shoeburyness&form=LMLTCC
Following on from previous posts, am I right in thinking there was TSR-2 remains on the island until the '90s? If so, were any of these recovered and saved? It would be a shame if such material made it all the way through the '90s and then ended up scrapped after all. Also, this thread highlights the fact that the chap from Foulness on the TSR-2 documentary downplayed the quantity of TSR-2 material left on site. I recall he says words to the effect of 'only having a few small bits left', whereas the images in this thread from 1993 suggest quite a lot of the airframe(s) remained on site.
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 28th January 2015 at 11:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think was a general conspiracy to down play anything TSR2 for decades! All very sad.
Posts: 3,208
By: Mike J - 28th January 2015 at 11:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I remember that when we re-assembled XR222 at Duxford in 1978 after it arrived from Cranfield, we were told that quite a bit of the first prototype, XR219, still survived at Foulness.
Posts: 3,778
By: Trolly Aux - 28th January 2015 at 11:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
At one point I was told that parts of the TSR2 on Foulness were going to the museum at Tilbury Fort but were destroyed before they could be removed, back in the early 90s I think, sure I was shown a photo of a wing tip sitting on the Island too
Posts: 1,613
By: Meddle - 28th January 2015 at 12:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
These images apparently show the wing tips;
If the wings never reached Tilbury Fort, were they destroyed intentionally or were they too structurally unsound to survive the journey?
Posts: 3,778
By: Trolly Aux - 28th January 2015 at 12:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Aha !, brilliant, shame, I am sure the museum could of displayed them perfectly.
Posts: 1,613
By: Meddle - 28th January 2015 at 12:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I guess the silly/obvious question is, where are they now?
Posts: 3,778
By: Trolly Aux - 28th January 2015 at 12:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
BLOWN UP !
Posts: 520
By: Bunsen Honeydew - 28th January 2015 at 13:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As far as I'm aware all the remaining TSR2 items on Foulness and Pendine were scrapped by Hanningfield Metals and they shredded the lot. They refused point blank to let anyone have any bits which to me points to an order from MoD. Hanningfields were normally very helpful to museums and collectors.
There was a rumour that when the contents of Quedgely were sold that the parts to make a complete TSR2 were bought by a very wealthy collector
Posts: 1,788
By: Sabrejet - 28th January 2015 at 13:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
TIGHAR. I expect a press release shortly.
Posts: 1,613
By: Meddle - 28th January 2015 at 19:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
To quote an earlier thread;
In the mid 90's I picked up two small TSR 2 items from an Aerojumble (Shoreham). In about 1997-8-9 I noticed in Aeroplane Monthly Hangers stores section, a wanted advert requesting TSR 2 bits. Noting that the bits I had were not really in my line of collecting but keen to see them go to a good home I phoned the number. The guy on the other end of the phone told my the following story;-
He run a company which was aviation related and sometimes touched on the warbird scene. During one of these warbird scene moments he had recently (within a month or so of that time) come across a TSR 2 forward fuse in a scrap yard covered by a tarpaulin. I asked if this was the forward fuse which was at the time at Farnborough/Brooklands. He said no and he believed it was the forward fuse of XR219! He would not tell me the location but did let slip the yard specialised in handling stainless steel. His advert and attitude of not telling anybody the location was intended to see if enough bits were available so that he (and only he) could put together a reasonable display standard item. He took my name address and told me he would get back to me... but never did. I've since lost the phone number.
At the time I was working on Nimrod MRA4 and hence had regular contact with Warton. So I passed the story on to the BAe North West Heritage group. They phoned the number and got the same story and response. They were sufficiently interested to contact Shoeburyness to try to track down just who bought the remains of XR219 when it went up for disposal. Although I don't think they could do this, but Shoeburyness "confirmed" that XR219 was shredded by the scrapy in the late 70's.
Some time later I was reading a book on which I think was called "The history of British Aerospace A Proud Heritage" (or something like that), which was published in the mid/late 80's and hidden await in the text it makes the claim that the scrap yard that handled XR219 was quietly storing significant portions of the aircraft.
Now, there is never any smoke without fire....... (Has anyone got the back issue of Aeroplane Monthly from either 1997/8/9 with that phone number?)
As for other TSR 2 bits, I understand that the Brian Trubshaw horde which was once at Little Rissington consisting of bits from Shoeburyness/Pendine (engines mainly, bit possibly wings as well?) has been disposed of by Marine Salvage of Southampton.... with some bits going to collections and other going for scrap. When RAF Quedgeley/Henlow/Cardington were cleared in the 80's & 90's a significant number of TSR 2 bits were found, most if not all of which were passed to Cosford. The guys at Cosford noted that some of these bits were actually from their TSR2 XR220 (apparently the cropped wires still on the equipment matched perfectly those on the aircraft.... when the aircraft was stripped in the 60's why did they disconnect on the plugs!).
I would be surprised if anything TSR 2 was at Aston Down. I have been connected with Aston Down in one way or another from 1983 to the present day. Although large quantities of aircraft/engine jigs and tools were stored there, on both professional visits (both working for RR and BAe) to some of the hangers and my time connected with gliding, I saw very few aircraft parts and even then these were test parts such as the fatigue test Phantom. However it was the sort of place where stuff could get lost for years...... some Gloster Javelin wing and fuse jigs could still be found there up until the late 1980's! ...so I could be wrong.
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?20465-Tsr2-XR219/page2
It would appear that some of XR-219 was saved and is in private hands, though nobody is talking!
Posts: 7,742
By: TwinOtter23 - 28th January 2015 at 19:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Meddle, if you PM me an email address I’ll send you a NAM newsletter in a PDF format about the event last September mentioned in this thread http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?129995
NAM pulled together a variety of TSR2 items from around the UK to join the items that it already displays; the Brooklands cockpit is still on site – albeit covered over at the moment to protect it from the elements.
Posts: 84
By: Dean W - 28th January 2015 at 22:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thought it might be interesting to share this pic of a MiG-23 I shot at Hanningfield Metals back in April 2009. Having made numerous trips down there as a kid to see the Phantoms, Buccs, Canberras etc. I took a random trip there to see if there was anything of any interest still at the site. The answer was no, just random metal, until I walked around a corner and found this..
[ATTACH=CONFIG]234935[/ATTACH]
I believe it is 50 red, formerly of the Russian Air Force.
Posts: 386
By: minimans - 28th January 2015 at 23:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Blimey when i read it the first time I thought you said MIG-23 I shot down................................................
Posts: 1,613
By: Meddle - 29th January 2015 at 12:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Like all good stories, there appears to be an easy and a complicated solution, based upon what I've read. Is the cockpit section at Brooklands off of XR219, or another? It sounds like parts of XR219, once removed from Foulness, were heisted out of the scrappies contrary to the official story (be it that there was nothing left at Foulness to scrap or that Hanningfield metals got to it). Given the range of photos available from Hanningfield metals over the years, do any contain conclusive evidence of XR219?
I've noticed that a similar thread of rumour and conspiracy surrounds the Avro Arrow. Somebody's brother's flight instructor once saw half an Arrow in the back of a hangar in the '80s etc etc...
Posts: 7,742
By: TwinOtter23 - 29th January 2015 at 13:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In Damien Burke’s excellent TSR2 book, the cockpit is described as: “Test forebody T5 …” and that it was “….Rescued from the Farnborough dump in 1992.”
I'll be emailing you the PDFs shortly.
Posts: 1,613
By: Meddle - 29th January 2015 at 13:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This suggests that sections of XR219 may exist in private hands then?