Crusader's wing

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Could the Vought F-8 Crusader fly with landing gear retracted and the variable incidence wing raised in high AOA position?

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RE: Crusader's wing

I don't see why not, F-4s have gotten airborne with their outer wing panels folded which is a more challenging aerodynamic configuration I would have thought.:-)

Regards, Dazza.

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RE: Crusader's wing

Wasn't that a Skyraider story? If someone really did that in an F4, I'm impressed (at the recovery)!

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RE: Crusader's wing

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 13-02-03 AT 07:20 PM (GMT)]I never knew of Phantoms phlying with their outer wing panels pholded. Wouldn't surprise me though. However, the Crusader has quite a number of logged takeoffs and landings with the outer wing panels up - i think they should be somewhere in the archives on AFM, i remember typing something about that a few months back.

As for the AoA-adjustable wing: this was controlled by a separate lever in the cockpit (or actually two: the handle itself and a separate locking handle), hence functioned independently from the landing gear. So a flight with gears up and wing out is possible, although i think it was only common right after take-off. The only pic i could find of a Crusader in that configuration seems to be just that. Interestingly, the wing was not crancked up for other cases in which the Crusader had to fly really slow, for example when being refuelled by a slow bug like the AJ-2 Savage or KC-130.

This pic's from Wings of Fame vol. 5, showing an RF-8G with VFP-63.

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_1338143/RF-8G+with+wing+out.jpg?bcfO_…

Edit: i couldn't get the image uploaded (...again... do i owe anyone some pictures still, btw?), so i rerouted it via Yahoo.

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RE: Crusader's wing

Greg Schwalber(pilot) and Bill Wood(RIO) launched in a VF-14 'Tophatters' F-4B '112/AB' with the outer wings folded, upon realisation all the stores were jettisoned and they made a safe shore landing, I'm also sure a RAF crew got airborne with the wings folded but I think this aircraft was lost after the crew ejected, I read it somewhere but I can't remember where.

Regards, Dazza.

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RE: Crusader's wing

My interest in whether the F-8 wing could be flown in its high AOA position -- not with outer extremities folded to the vertical -- is because at higher speeds than those encountered in the pattern, the raised wing might blanket the tail or worse, part company with the rest of the airplane for the same reason that aircraft have maximum flap and gear extension speeds. Nothing would ruin my day like looking in a rear view mirror and seeing that massive wing somersaulting independently of the rest of the ensemble. Hence my wondering if there was a mechanical arrangement between landing gear and wing raising apparatus.

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RE: Crusader's wing

Technically speaking, it's not the which which has variable incidence, it's the fuselage. After all, the wing is doing the flying so the wing is the constant factor in the whole process of moving from wing-up to wing-down. Aerodynamically speaking, it's the fuselage which moves back to the wing and not the other way around.

So the idea of the 'wing ripping off' due to an unhealthy AoA is not really likely. A wing stall is of course possible, but i don't know of any such incidents - the aircraft would have had too little airspeed in such cases anyway.

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RE: Crusader's wing

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 14-02-03 AT 12:35 PM (GMT)]...is because at higher speeds than those
encountered in the pattern, the raised wing might blanket
the tail or worse, part company with the rest of the
airplane for the same reason that aircraft have maximum flap
and gear extension speeds. Nothing would ruin my day like
looking in a rear view mirror and seeing that massive wing
somersaulting independently of the rest of the ensemble.

You're forgetting that it is the wing which is doing the flying, not the fuselage. In fact, when an F-8 lowered the wing back into the fuselage after takeoff, it was actually the fuselage being moved up to match the wing in stead of the other way around. There is no way the wing could have flapped in case of a hinge/hydraulics failure or it could have blanked out the tail. Long before the wing would have reached such an AoA, it would have stalled anyway. It's simply not possible.

Edit: Ah, my post of last night is back as well. I was typing that but when i uploaded it, the Script Error appeared. Although the post was on the index this afternoon, i couldn't see it so i retyped something similar. And now there's two...