By: Foray
- 28th July 2013 at 14:05Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Tricky one, and a pity there have not been more comments to your question. Any chance of using scraps from other (less substantial) Barracuda wrecks, thus leaving DR306 & LS931 more intact for potential restoration later? I am assuming substantial parts from those two machines exist. See PM for slightly off topic question.
By: Tin Triangle
- 28th July 2013 at 16:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I personally think that the most satisfactory outcome is to have one, complete, composite Barracuda in the FAAM which is as original as possible, as a memorial to all the crews who flew the type and didn't live to tell the tale. I'm sure the guys who died in DP872, DR306 and LS931 would all be absolutely chuffed that a dedicated and skillful team is resurrecting a Barracuda from bits of "their" aircraft to remember their sacrifices by! It would be quite possible for the completed aircraft to be accompanied by a plaque or other memorial commemorating the three crews equally.
So in that sense, I for one don't think it matters which of those three identities is used: to me it simply ought to be the one from which the majority of material is drawn.
Note also we have a 'subscribe' option so you can get an email notification whenever the site is updated or something else of interest is going on. :eagerness:
By: Consul
- 15th August 2013 at 10:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This diary and the progress it describes is so refreshing to read - informative, modest, funny and impressive - it's easy to see why the FAAM has put the project in your hands. Great stuff!
By: 1batfastard
- 15th August 2013 at 14:16Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
Lovely to see the progress but I fear many more banging of bent metal and various mutterings of profanity for a while yet well done to all involved and keep up the good work excellent. :eagerness:
By: BluebirdBill
- 15th August 2013 at 21:14Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Cheers, all.
We get a few hours here and there but our main priority at the moment remainsBluebird. However, we're getting better at the Barra' stuff, we have one of the tailplane leading edges almost good for the paint shop, which is pretty cool seeing as it was in many plenty pieces and it lives on the outside where everyone can point at it. One thing that surprised me when I was at FAAM a few weeks ago is that most of the WWII stuff looked like it had been bashed about pretty badly - dings and dents all over the place - and here's us trying to make it look perfect. I guess we'll have to stop short or it'll look like a fake.
Good supply of bits trickling in though, stuff that's obviously been stashed for years, it's all very encouraging.
By: richw_82
- 16th August 2013 at 09:02Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I notice the diary entry says there's not much of a right wing to work with - maybe a revisit to PM870 is due? There seems to be quite a bit of wing structure left on site.
By: BluebirdBill
- 16th August 2013 at 11:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I notice the diary entry says there's not much of a right wing to work with - maybe a revisit to PM870 is due? There seems to be quite a bit of wing structure left on site.
Is that the Brora one? We've looked at that one and I'd be up there in a flash but bureaucracy being what it is we're having to wait. There's also a complete Barra' up a mountain in Norway. We've done lots of exploration in northern Norway and have good contacts up there but, again, getting the paperwork in order is a nightmare.
We're also well known for being able to locate sunken objects so there's limiter possibility there. We're short of an elevator spar and a rudder spar though we could squeak a rudder out of the elevator bits we have. But we also have the tail from a MKIII that came out of salt water and, though the aluminium is largely gone, it's sacrificed itself in the old dissimilar metal war leaving the steel in mint condition. There's also the possibility of recovering plastic windows and the like if we can find one in the sea that hasn't piled in too badly. Anyone know of one?
By: BluebirdBill
- 16th August 2013 at 20:02Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi there,
Are these wrecks we're familiar with or ones we've not heard of - if I may ask? If there's parts we can use we can go straight to the top people. Nothing moves quickly but we can go to them regardless.
By: BluebirdBill
- 20th August 2013 at 01:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Guys,
Does anyone have any additional info on this Barra' loss?
Bleasby GR E 1935-1938
Sub-Lieutenant, RNVR, Fleet Air Arm 830 Squadron, HMS Furious.
Killed in a mid-air collision over the Clyde in a Fairey Barracuda aircraft
while on a training exercise.
Remembered on the Lee-on-Solent Memorial.
15/11/1943 aged 22 years.
By: Alan Clark
- 20th August 2013 at 02:52Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I cant' add much, though the FAAM Roll of Honour records the following for that date:
M G C Mathew
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Temp Sub Lieutenant(A)
P/0/AG: P
Service: RNVR
Service Number: Unknown
Squadron/Flight: 830
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
G R Bleasby
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Temp Sub Lieutenant(A)
P/0/AG: O
Service: RNVR
Service Number: Unknown
Squadron/Flight: 830
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
F Anderson
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Leading Airman
P/0/AG: TAG3
Service: Unknown
Service Number: FX 115136
Squadron/Flight: 830
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
And
R Jamieson
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Temp Sub Lieutenant(A)
P/0/AG: P
Service: RNZNVR
Service Number: Unknown
Squadron/Flight: 827
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
C F Kirby
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Temp Lieutenant(A)
P/0/AG: O
Service: RNVR
Service Number: Unknown
Squadron/Flight: 827
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
S D Bridges
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Leading Airman
P/0/AG: TAG3
Service: Unknown
Service Number: FX 95744
Squadron/Flight: 827
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
Look like no-one got out of either aircraft, I've not checked CWGC entries for them so can't say whether any were recovered or not.
If anyone is going to the National Archives soon and has time they could pull the ship's log for HMS Furious for November 1943 and see what it had to say. I have a couple of pages from October 1942 from another Clyde visit but nothing further.
By: BluebirdBill
- 20th August 2013 at 10:43Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Interesting, presumably the other aircraft was a Barra' too and I'm guessing they landed in the water or the bodies would have been recovered. We're researching Barra' wrecks in the sea and having done a fair amount of exploration and diving in the Clyde I've never heard of this one. It would be interesting to know roughly where in the Clyde this took place. I'd guess it happened out in the deep bit though. Is there any indication as to where in the Clyde the carriers used to exercise?
Posts: 238
By: Foray - 28th July 2013 at 14:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Tricky one, and a pity there have not been more comments to your question. Any chance of using scraps from other (less substantial) Barracuda wrecks, thus leaving DR306 & LS931 more intact for potential restoration later? I am assuming substantial parts from those two machines exist. See PM for slightly off topic question.
Posts: 1,205
By: Tin Triangle - 28th July 2013 at 16:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I personally think that the most satisfactory outcome is to have one, complete, composite Barracuda in the FAAM which is as original as possible, as a memorial to all the crews who flew the type and didn't live to tell the tale. I'm sure the guys who died in DP872, DR306 and LS931 would all be absolutely chuffed that a dedicated and skillful team is resurrecting a Barracuda from bits of "their" aircraft to remember their sacrifices by! It would be quite possible for the completed aircraft to be accompanied by a plaque or other memorial commemorating the three crews equally.
So in that sense, I for one don't think it matters which of those three identities is used: to me it simply ought to be the one from which the majority of material is drawn.
Posts: 2,172
By: CeBro - 28th July 2013 at 18:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Use the centre section as the identity. Didn 't Paul Coggan use that as his yardstick?
Cees
Posts: 2,446
By: Bluebird Mike - 28th July 2013 at 22:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for the replies guys- all very considered and much appreciated. :eagerness:
Posts: 2,245
By: Fouga23 - 29th July 2013 at 10:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Isn't normally the cockpit section the one that holds the ID?
Posts: 2,835
By: Whitley_Project - 29th July 2013 at 11:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Lovely looking tailplane - that is a great piece of work, and the air scoop - very nice work indeed.
Posts: 722
By: Flying_Pencil - 3rd August 2013 at 02:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wish you best of luck!
How quick the world was to "bury" everything after the war....
Posts: 358
By: Camlobe - 5th August 2013 at 14:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Although I was aware of the Bluebird project, today I went through the Barracuda thread.
What a breath of fresh air. This teams approach, and equally, their results are fantastic. I am so impressed, I have even signed up for the updates.
Great work guys, and I will enjoy following your progress.
Camlobe
Posts: 2,446
By: Bluebird Mike - 15th August 2013 at 09:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Our August diary is now online-
http://barracudaproject.co.uk/index.php?id=24
Some serious tin bashing in this one!
Note also we have a 'subscribe' option so you can get an email notification whenever the site is updated or something else of interest is going on. :eagerness:
Posts: 1,772
By: Consul - 15th August 2013 at 10:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This diary and the progress it describes is so refreshing to read - informative, modest, funny and impressive - it's easy to see why the FAAM has put the project in your hands. Great stuff!
Tim
Posts: 8,464
By: Bruce - 15th August 2013 at 10:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Lovely work as ever.
Would you like a Vokes filter element, so you can make up the missing bit? You only had the teeth left, but no element!
Bruce
Posts: 3,652
By: 1batfastard - 15th August 2013 at 14:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
Lovely to see the progress but I fear many more banging of bent metal and various mutterings of profanity for a while yet well done to all involved and keep up the good work excellent. :eagerness:
Geoff.:D
Posts: 164
By: BluebirdBill - 15th August 2013 at 21:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Cheers, all.
We get a few hours here and there but our main priority at the moment remainsBluebird. However, we're getting better at the Barra' stuff, we have one of the tailplane leading edges almost good for the paint shop, which is pretty cool seeing as it was in many plenty pieces and it lives on the outside where everyone can point at it. One thing that surprised me when I was at FAAM a few weeks ago is that most of the WWII stuff looked like it had been bashed about pretty badly - dings and dents all over the place - and here's us trying to make it look perfect. I guess we'll have to stop short or it'll look like a fake.
Good supply of bits trickling in though, stuff that's obviously been stashed for years, it's all very encouraging.
Posts: 1,665
By: richw_82 - 16th August 2013 at 09:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I notice the diary entry says there's not much of a right wing to work with - maybe a revisit to PM870 is due? There seems to be quite a bit of wing structure left on site.
http://www.peakdistrictaircrashes.co.uk/pages/scotland/scotlandpm870.htm
Regards,
Rich
Posts: 164
By: BluebirdBill - 16th August 2013 at 11:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is that the Brora one? We've looked at that one and I'd be up there in a flash but bureaucracy being what it is we're having to wait. There's also a complete Barra' up a mountain in Norway. We've done lots of exploration in northern Norway and have good contacts up there but, again, getting the paperwork in order is a nightmare.
We're also well known for being able to locate sunken objects so there's limiter possibility there. We're short of an elevator spar and a rudder spar though we could squeak a rudder out of the elevator bits we have. But we also have the tail from a MKIII that came out of salt water and, though the aluminium is largely gone, it's sacrificed itself in the old dissimilar metal war leaving the steel in mint condition. There's also the possibility of recovering plastic windows and the like if we can find one in the sea that hasn't piled in too badly. Anyone know of one?
Posts: 2,835
By: Whitley_Project - 16th August 2013 at 15:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi Bill - I have been trying to get permission to recover 2 Barra wrecks for some time. If it comes off you can have your pick of any parts you need.
Posts: 164
By: BluebirdBill - 16th August 2013 at 20:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi there,
Are these wrecks we're familiar with or ones we've not heard of - if I may ask? If there's parts we can use we can go straight to the top people. Nothing moves quickly but we can go to them regardless.
Posts: 164
By: BluebirdBill - 20th August 2013 at 01:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Guys,
Does anyone have any additional info on this Barra' loss?
Bleasby GR E 1935-1938
Sub-Lieutenant, RNVR, Fleet Air Arm 830 Squadron, HMS Furious.
Killed in a mid-air collision over the Clyde in a Fairey Barracuda aircraft
while on a training exercise.
Remembered on the Lee-on-Solent Memorial.
15/11/1943 aged 22 years.
Posts: 819
By: Alan Clark - 20th August 2013 at 02:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I cant' add much, though the FAAM Roll of Honour records the following for that date:
M G C Mathew
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Temp Sub Lieutenant(A)
P/0/AG: P
Service: RNVR
Service Number: Unknown
Squadron/Flight: 830
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
G R Bleasby
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Temp Sub Lieutenant(A)
P/0/AG: O
Service: RNVR
Service Number: Unknown
Squadron/Flight: 830
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
F Anderson
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Leading Airman
P/0/AG: TAG3
Service: Unknown
Service Number: FX 115136
Squadron/Flight: 830
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
And
R Jamieson
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Temp Sub Lieutenant(A)
P/0/AG: P
Service: RNZNVR
Service Number: Unknown
Squadron/Flight: 827
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
C F Kirby
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Temp Lieutenant(A)
P/0/AG: O
Service: RNVR
Service Number: Unknown
Squadron/Flight: 827
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
S D Bridges
Decoration: Unknown
Rank: Leading Airman
P/0/AG: TAG3
Service: Unknown
Service Number: FX 95744
Squadron/Flight: 827
Station/Ship: HMS Furious
Date of Death: 15 November 1943
Look like no-one got out of either aircraft, I've not checked CWGC entries for them so can't say whether any were recovered or not.
If anyone is going to the National Archives soon and has time they could pull the ship's log for HMS Furious for November 1943 and see what it had to say. I have a couple of pages from October 1942 from another Clyde visit but nothing further.
Posts: 164
By: BluebirdBill - 20th August 2013 at 10:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Interesting, presumably the other aircraft was a Barra' too and I'm guessing they landed in the water or the bodies would have been recovered. We're researching Barra' wrecks in the sea and having done a fair amount of exploration and diving in the Clyde I've never heard of this one. It would be interesting to know roughly where in the Clyde this took place. I'd guess it happened out in the deep bit though. Is there any indication as to where in the Clyde the carriers used to exercise?