By: Beermat
- 5th January 2010 at 15:14Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why are we all being so coy? Is this person's name a secret?
There does seem to be a touch of irrationality here. If she wants a legacy to remain, then she can't let things rot. If she's concerned about a 'fast one', she can have shares in any project. Its not like her husband's legacy disappears if something's sold for a high value. It's all the more assured.
Her husband did a great thing by saving those items (and others) from the Failsworth yard. Does she want them to corrode to nothing now?
By: pagen01
- 5th January 2010 at 15:21Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
id been told that the reason for her stubborn refusal to allow the aircraft to be restored, purchased was due to paranoia that someone would pull a fast one and make a lot of money?
(so my father says)
Bit like people that leave old cars rotting in barns, believing they are worth far more (and I stress, in the financial sense) than they really are.
Like others I really don't get not accepting your own airframe being restored at someone elses expense, and upping its value in the process!
New
Posts: 3,214
By: Nashio966
- 5th January 2010 at 15:39Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
By: Jon H
- 5th January 2010 at 15:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Her husband did a great thing by saving those items (and others) from the Failsworth yard. Does she want them to corrode to nothing now?
Err the husband didnt save anything - he was the scrappy who ran said yard.......
Jon
New
Posts: 1,656
By: Lindy's Lad
- 5th January 2010 at 16:12Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Jon, agreed, BUT he kept hold of the sections for a long time.... The rumour goes that he was stood on top of the swift with a running chainsaw when NEAM members wandered in......;)
By: Beermat
- 5th January 2010 at 16:19Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Err the husband didnt save anything - he was the scrappy who ran said yard.......
Jon
Sorry - I already had a vague idea that the previous scrap yard owner, before his widow took over, was ameinable to putting things aside for interested parties - rather than just scrapping them. This impression was reinforced by Lindy's lad saying 'The Brigand, Swift, Balliol and Firefly sections were identified by NEAM and saved by the owner of the Unimetals yard in Failsworth'
This alone is unusual behaviour for a scrappie, and worthy of some praise - if my vague memory is correct (which it might not be).
By: Thunderbird167
- 5th January 2010 at 16:35Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Unimetals yard was abit of a time warp prior to clearance.
The yard had to be cleared because the local authority ghad placed a compulsary purchase order on the yard.
Undoubtedly the NEAM team arrived in the nick of time as the Brigand wings were been cut up. I know that there were some frantic phone calls to try and secure the Swift and Brigand before they were destroyed.
The current Vice-Chairman at NEAM was one of those invoved in the rescue and could probably be encouraged to tell the full story.
The owner was the one who instructed the person scrapping to stop work so that the items could be rescued.
By: WL747
- 5th January 2010 at 16:37Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is it just a case of waiting for the enevitable passing of the current owner before the restoration can start? Perhaps her beneficiaries can see sense....
By: Jon H
- 5th January 2010 at 17:33Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just read it, what a tale!
Indeed! Which is why I think every snippet of information that has appeared on this thread, whilst contradictory in the odd place at times is probably all true!
That post was before my time on here Jon.. but oh what a missed opportunity. It beggars belief what was in that yard re Brigand, Sea Hornet, Balliols, Fireflies etc for so long. Two types are extinct, one almost and the other hardly common.
Interesting.. Ive got a bit of a love affiar with the Brigand, and have been investigating a aircraft incident at RAF Colerne .
Whilst being shown by the land owner the spot where Brigand RH760 crashed , after it had just been ploughed, there were pieces of it all over the surface, just little pieces, , the land owner was telling me how they had seen this aircraft just dive into the ground, they thought it had stalled,
as it wasnt very high up when it crashed, but exploded on impact,
sending fragments far and wide.Killing the four crew instantly
the poor crew didnt stand a chance, reportedly the pilot was a very popular man as he was a very good rugby player and was in the Base Rugby team .
I have would love to find any more information regarding this incident, and most of all any photographs of Brigand RH760, would be a really interesting find, or of the site itself.
Incidentally, there was another brigand which crashed at colerne RH831. a Type T.5 . which crashed in 1956, both engines cut on landing, and it reportedly hit trees whilst attempting to forceland, , I do believe the control grip is still in the care of the aviation hanger at Raf Colerne, , the pilot and navigator were killed, but two Naval Personnel walked away from the crash, with minor injuries.
any info or photo's of aircraft that served, or were lost post war in the Colerne area would be greatly recieved, does anyone know of a library where aircraft individaul photos can be perhaps found ???, it makes a investigation all the more interesting when you can see photo's of the actual aircraft, or crew, it makes it real,
many thanks, I know its a long shot, but must be worth asking
Thanks all :)
By: Delauney
- 5th January 2010 at 21:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Brigand RH760 from 230 OCU was returning from an navigational training flight while carrying out an asymmetric flying practice the port engine cut out, the aircraft stalled and subsequently crashed.
The pilot was 180387 F/Lt Allan Archibald James Symington, buried at Little Aston, Birmingham on 27th Feb '53, he was originally from London.
The only other details I have are his promotions;
Commissioned from AC2 21.1.45
Flying Officer (War sub) 21.7.45
Flying Officer (Sub) 1.11.47
F/Lt (RAFVR) 21.7.48
Perm Commission as a F/Lt 10.11.48
I've been in contact with a number of people at Little Aston without much success in finding additional information.
The pilot of RH831 was a Sergeant David Hanson he was from Dublin, born in 1923, who had served as a pilot in the RAF from Sept 1941 to Nov 1946, and later reenlisted in Feb 1952.
The Navigator/Instructor was F/O Ronald Crocker who was born in Sept 1933, enlisted April 1951 and was commissioned in Sept of that year.
In addition to the above on 30th July 1954 Brigand WA560 did a wheels up landing , the crew were ok,the pilot was Sgt Lewandowski.
Also on 11am Sept 1954 Brigand piloted by F/Sgt R J R Dalton performed another wheels up landing on RW 20, the AC crashed across the Bath-Colerne road ending up in a ditch, it just missed a small saloon car, in addition to Dalton was F/Sgt J D Lee from Timsbury (Nav instructor) and two commissioned navigator trainees, they were all ok.
By: FiltonFlyer
- 5th January 2010 at 22:31Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Have I read too much into FiltonFlyers' post?
Yes you have. I said 'As far as I know, restoration is on the cards for some point in the future'. What I meant was that the Aero Collection would like to restore the fuselage to a more 'displayable' condition, as it is not in great condition at the moment. If it is to go on display in any future museum at Filton, then it would need to have a certain amount of restoration work done to it. By the way, this is not in any way an official statement, just my opinion as a BAC volunteer. I'm not in any position to comment on any discussions with the owner.
By: lauriebe
- 6th January 2010 at 08:07Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Lauriebe, do you have any more info on the Brigand sites that have been located/visited? Have these had parts recovered or do substantial remains still exist at these sites.? Sorry to put you on the spot like this but you are somewhat closer to them than i am here in frosty old Duxford.
Rob, sorry, but I don't have any real details on Brigand crash sites here. The only info that I have comes from books such as those published by Colin Cummings and Jim Halley. The locations in those are not really enough to pin down exact crash sites. The only one that I know for sure to have been located and visited is RH755.
Posts: 3,447
By: Beermat - 5th January 2010 at 15:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why are we all being so coy? Is this person's name a secret?
There does seem to be a touch of irrationality here. If she wants a legacy to remain, then she can't let things rot. If she's concerned about a 'fast one', she can have shares in any project. Its not like her husband's legacy disappears if something's sold for a high value. It's all the more assured.
Her husband did a great thing by saving those items (and others) from the Failsworth yard. Does she want them to corrode to nothing now?
Posts: 10,647
By: pagen01 - 5th January 2010 at 15:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Bit like people that leave old cars rotting in barns, believing they are worth far more (and I stress, in the financial sense) than they really are.
Like others I really don't get not accepting your own airframe being restored at someone elses expense, and upping its value in the process!
Posts: 3,214
By: Nashio966 - 5th January 2010 at 15:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Im not being coy, i dont know the ladys name :)
Posts: 3,447
By: Beermat - 5th January 2010 at 15:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Fair enough :)
Posts: 1,421
By: Jon H - 5th January 2010 at 15:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Err the husband didnt save anything - he was the scrappy who ran said yard.......
Jon
Posts: 1,656
By: Lindy's Lad - 5th January 2010 at 16:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Jon, agreed, BUT he kept hold of the sections for a long time.... The rumour goes that he was stood on top of the swift with a running chainsaw when NEAM members wandered in......;)
Posts: 3,447
By: Beermat - 5th January 2010 at 16:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry - I already had a vague idea that the previous scrap yard owner, before his widow took over, was ameinable to putting things aside for interested parties - rather than just scrapping them. This impression was reinforced by Lindy's lad saying 'The Brigand, Swift, Balliol and Firefly sections were identified by NEAM and saved by the owner of the Unimetals yard in Failsworth'
This alone is unusual behaviour for a scrappie, and worthy of some praise - if my vague memory is correct (which it might not be).
Posts: 993
By: Thunderbird167 - 5th January 2010 at 16:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Unimetals yard was abit of a time warp prior to clearance.
The yard had to be cleared because the local authority ghad placed a compulsary purchase order on the yard.
Undoubtedly the NEAM team arrived in the nick of time as the Brigand wings were been cut up. I know that there were some frantic phone calls to try and secure the Swift and Brigand before they were destroyed.
The current Vice-Chairman at NEAM was one of those invoved in the rescue and could probably be encouraged to tell the full story.
The owner was the one who instructed the person scrapping to stop work so that the items could be rescued.
Posts: 462
By: WL747 - 5th January 2010 at 16:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is it just a case of waiting for the enevitable passing of the current owner before the restoration can start? Perhaps her beneficiaries can see sense....
Posts: 6,000
By: Wyvernfan - 5th January 2010 at 17:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
:eek: I had no idea there were Brigand wings there as well. Bl**dy hell what a missed opportunity to save so much of an extinct type.
Posts: 1,421
By: Jon H - 5th January 2010 at 17:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You not seen the pictures of them on the here then? At least one in this thread, though cant remember where!
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20216&highlight=failsworth
Jon
Posts: 10,647
By: pagen01 - 5th January 2010 at 17:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just read it, what a tale!
Posts: 1,421
By: Jon H - 5th January 2010 at 17:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Indeed! Which is why I think every snippet of information that has appeared on this thread, whilst contradictory in the odd place at times is probably all true!
Jon
Posts: 6,000
By: Wyvernfan - 5th January 2010 at 17:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That post was before my time on here Jon.. but oh what a missed opportunity. It beggars belief what was in that yard re Brigand, Sea Hornet, Balliols, Fireflies etc for so long. Two types are extinct, one almost and the other hardly common.
Posts: 297
By: Worcs Aviation - 5th January 2010 at 19:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Talking about the Brigand,
I have this picture taken in Malasia, wonder if anyone could ID it from the code letter? serial number is not clear enough to read
Thanks
Ant.
[ATTACH]180345[/ATTACH]
Posts: 1,107
By: merkle - 5th January 2010 at 19:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Brigand T.4, RH760 ,23 OCU , Colerne ,Bristol,23/02/53
Interesting.. Ive got a bit of a love affiar with the Brigand, and have been investigating a aircraft incident at RAF Colerne .
Whilst being shown by the land owner the spot where Brigand RH760 crashed , after it had just been ploughed, there were pieces of it all over the surface, just little pieces, , the land owner was telling me how they had seen this aircraft just dive into the ground, they thought it had stalled,
as it wasnt very high up when it crashed, but exploded on impact,
sending fragments far and wide.Killing the four crew instantly
the poor crew didnt stand a chance, reportedly the pilot was a very popular man as he was a very good rugby player and was in the Base Rugby team .
I have would love to find any more information regarding this incident, and most of all any photographs of Brigand RH760, would be a really interesting find, or of the site itself.
Incidentally, there was another brigand which crashed at colerne RH831. a Type T.5 . which crashed in 1956, both engines cut on landing, and it reportedly hit trees whilst attempting to forceland, , I do believe the control grip is still in the care of the aviation hanger at Raf Colerne, , the pilot and navigator were killed, but two Naval Personnel walked away from the crash, with minor injuries.
any info or photo's of aircraft that served, or were lost post war in the Colerne area would be greatly recieved, does anyone know of a library where aircraft individaul photos can be perhaps found ???, it makes a investigation all the more interesting when you can see photo's of the actual aircraft, or crew, it makes it real,
many thanks, I know its a long shot, but must be worth asking
Thanks all :)
Posts: 12
By: Delauney - 5th January 2010 at 21:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Brigand RH760 from 230 OCU was returning from an navigational training flight while carrying out an asymmetric flying practice the port engine cut out, the aircraft stalled and subsequently crashed.
The pilot was 180387 F/Lt Allan Archibald James Symington, buried at Little Aston, Birmingham on 27th Feb '53, he was originally from London.
The only other details I have are his promotions;
Commissioned from AC2 21.1.45
Flying Officer (War sub) 21.7.45
Flying Officer (Sub) 1.11.47
F/Lt (RAFVR) 21.7.48
Perm Commission as a F/Lt 10.11.48
I've been in contact with a number of people at Little Aston without much success in finding additional information.
The pilot of RH831 was a Sergeant David Hanson he was from Dublin, born in 1923, who had served as a pilot in the RAF from Sept 1941 to Nov 1946, and later reenlisted in Feb 1952.
The Navigator/Instructor was F/O Ronald Crocker who was born in Sept 1933, enlisted April 1951 and was commissioned in Sept of that year.
In addition to the above on 30th July 1954 Brigand WA560 did a wheels up landing , the crew were ok,the pilot was Sgt Lewandowski.
Also on 11am Sept 1954 Brigand piloted by F/Sgt R J R Dalton performed another wheels up landing on RW 20, the AC crashed across the Bath-Colerne road ending up in a ditch, it just missed a small saloon car, in addition to Dalton was F/Sgt J D Lee from Timsbury (Nav instructor) and two commissioned navigator trainees, they were all ok.
Posts: 10,647
By: pagen01 - 5th January 2010 at 21:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RH806 was coded J at one time, dosen't nescesarily mean it is this aircraft though.
Edit, so was WB236! I think you would need to know Squadron and date to positively ID this Brigand
Posts: 249
By: FiltonFlyer - 5th January 2010 at 22:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes you have. I said 'As far as I know, restoration is on the cards for some point in the future'. What I meant was that the Aero Collection would like to restore the fuselage to a more 'displayable' condition, as it is not in great condition at the moment. If it is to go on display in any future museum at Filton, then it would need to have a certain amount of restoration work done to it. By the way, this is not in any way an official statement, just my opinion as a BAC volunteer. I'm not in any position to comment on any discussions with the owner.
Andy
Posts: 565
By: lauriebe - 6th January 2010 at 08:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Rob, sorry, but I don't have any real details on Brigand crash sites here. The only info that I have comes from books such as those published by Colin Cummings and Jim Halley. The locations in those are not really enough to pin down exact crash sites. The only one that I know for sure to have been located and visited is RH755.
Wish I could be of more help.
Laurie.