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By: - 18th January 2010 at 11:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Surely your first port-of-call would be Tony at Hawker Restorations?
Moggy
By: - 18th January 2010 at 11:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Moggy! I understand that Hawker Restorations have been very helpful in the past (since before my time with the project, in fact). Thing is though, they haven't done one of these, either :) - As far as I know (and don't quote me on this) this is the first excercise in gathering such items for the purposes of information that has taken place, and that includes the most excellent work of Hawker Restorations.
By: - 18th January 2010 at 22:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Moggy! I understand that Hawker Restorations have been very helpful in the past (since before my time with the project, in fact). Thing is though, they haven't done one of these, either :) - As far as I know (and don't quote me on this) this is the first excercise in gathering such items for the purposes of information that has taken place, and that includes the most excellent work of Hawker Restorations.
Hi beermat, Hawker Restorations would be the best bet for info. We did a couple of sets of wings for them at airframe assemblies back in the mid '90's, noteably P3351 that was for Sir Tim Wallis & i think a set for AE977. Good luck with what you want to do, cant say i've seen much info on these wings !
Steve
By: - 18th January 2010 at 23:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This is probably the blindingly obvious suggestion that's already been tried, but have you contacted the Science Museum? As you probably already know, they have a fabric wing Hurri on display and perhaps they therefore have some technical details for fabric wings stashed away somewhere?
By: - 18th January 2010 at 23:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This is probably the blindingly obvious suggestion that's already been tried, but have you contacted the Science Museum? As you probably already know, they have a fabric wing Hurri on display and perhaps they therefore have some technical details for fabric wings stashed away somewhere?
Wasn't there some form of exchange between the Science Museum example and the one at the Birmingham Museum (Think Tank)? I only say that to add a second string to AdlerTag's suggestion.
Roger Smith.
By: - 18th January 2010 at 23:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Essex Aviation Group recovered a Hurricane that had later been fitted with an earlier fabric wing from Finchingfield in 1978. There's at least one member of the group on this forum (name escapes me - either it's something to do with Beaufighters, or he has a Beau as an avatar, if that helps). It was a long while ago, it was in very small pieces, and they've lost their premises at DX since, so don't get too excited, but you never know...
Adrian
By: - 19th January 2010 at 14:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks to all!
In terms of paper plans, we are well served - so unless they have some actual bits somewhere (and I WILL double check, but I suspect our Paul would have access to them by now if they did) Hawker Restorations probably can't help much further in this very specific area - but yes, thanks, there's no doubt they are generally a place to go for all yer Hurri-building info needs.
I am learning as I go on this project, and what I've learned is that this is one of those cases where a picture might paint a thousand words, but an actual rusty lump of metal is even more descriptive! So this limits the help the Science Museum can give as well, as they won't let me peel the skin off theirs! (not that i'm suggesting it's rusty in there, of course).
So, Adrian, I will be pursuing the Essex Aviation angle as best I can - thank you so much for that, that's the kind of lead I was hoping for. Like I said, fragments are still good - especially castings, as they can be re-cast from a moulding of the original and often dictate all those critical internal angles..
By: - 19th January 2010 at 15:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I just had a second 'brainwave' on this one (which may actually turn out to be a more a brain fart, but there we go!), if I remember right Skysport Engineering at Hatch have done alot of work for the Science Museum in recent years, eg. the suspension of the Avro 504 and Lockheed Electra, restoration of the S.E.5, and conservation on the S.6B. Perhaps they will have done a re-cover or some such on the Hurri wings, or may know who has? Might be worth checking.
By: - 19th January 2010 at 15:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The chap posts here as Beaufighter VI (found the thread he posted on last year). I believe that Rochford was also an EAG member as well, but don't take my word for it, I have a memory like a... like a... you know, with holes in.
Adrian
By: - 19th January 2010 at 16:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Tim Moore from Skysport acquired (outbid me!) on the fabric Hurri wing that was in Chippenham Scrapyard...maybe he still has it? Say hello to Paul Rogers from me,
By: - 19th January 2010 at 16:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do you mean this one, Rocketeer? ;) (from our website - what a handsome chap on the drill, there). Yep, I'll pass on your regards to Mr R.
Adrian - many thanks for that! I will PM him :)
By: - 19th January 2010 at 17:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Tim Moore from Skysport acquired (outbid me!) on the fabric Hurri wing that was in Chippenham Scrapyard...maybe he still has it? Say hello to Paul Rogers from me,
!!!! I don't have any fabric wing parts, but if I did, the last person on earth to get their hands on them would be Paul Rogers.
By: - 19th January 2010 at 19:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Harsh! Why do you say that? The Paul I know is dedicating a lot of time and his own money to a very worthwhile cause. So much so, he can't actually afford an apostrophe in his name.
I've just found an old thread, from well before I joined - "Hurricane rebuild & Fury Replica - Cambridgeshire Bomber & Fighter Society" - you have a long-standing hatred, don't you? To give an answer to your post on that thread Andy, if you're reading this - it IS a data-plate plus-some-bits serial identity (but definitely NOT just an 'applied' serial).
Edit - Thinking about it Stuart, don't explain it on here - I don't want this thread closed - it sounds like it might get libellous, from what you say in your edit.
By: - 19th January 2010 at 22:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
hurri wings
Hi beermat, just thought i'd ask ,are you building static wings or will they be a flyer?
steve
By: - 19th January 2010 at 22:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi Steve
No, she'll not be a flyer. Imagine how hard it would be to get the 'new' wings certified! In fact, we'd have to take all of her apart and put her back together again in front of the appropriate people (at great expense) to get her certified now. Not to mention the substitution of airworthy parts (at the moment best reserved where possible for flyers) for many sound but non-airworthy ones. So, for the forseeable, she'll be a ground runner. Which is a shame.
But who knows what lies in the distant future?
By: - 19th January 2010 at 23:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi SteveNo, she'll not be a flyer. Imagine how hard it would be to get the 'new' wings certified! In fact, we'd have to take all of her apart and put her back together again in front of the appropriate people (at great expense) to get her certified now. Not to mention the substitution of airworthy parts (at the moment best reserved where possible for flyers) for many sound but non-airworthy ones. So, for the forseeable, she'll be a ground runner. Which is a shame.
But who knows what lies in the distant future?
Beermat, It would be an achievement to have a ground runner . Will she be taxiable ?
Steve
By: - 20th January 2010 at 08:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Harsh! Why do you say that? The Paul I know is dedicating a lot of time and his own money to a very worthwhile cause. So much so, he can't actually afford an apostrophe in his name.I've just found an old thread, from well before I joined - "Hurricane rebuild & Fury Replica - Cambridgeshire Bomber & Fighter Society" - you have a long-standing hatred, don't you? To give an answer to your post on that thread Andy, if you're reading this - it IS a data-plate plus-some-bits serial identity (but definitely NOT just an 'applied' serial).
Edit - Thinking about it Stuart, don't explain it on here - I don't want this thread closed - it sounds like it might get libellous, from what you say in your edit.
Not wishing to financially darken Mr Rogers any further, I have removed the heavy burden of the apostrophe.
The man in question had me over on some Merlin parts, not only did the protracted "deal" (over 2 years) not produce all of the parts outlined in the original Barnstormers ad, but the quality of the items was so bad, that only the crankcase and blower are usable (the wheel case that attaches the former to the later was supplied with only 2 bolt holes left on it).
The rocker covers weren't even a pair, the port side had the rear section of a stbd one grafted on it (badly) they are not symmetrical, the stbd one was so badly warped that it fitted on the inside of the studs (along the outer edge) both had a newly made Rolls-Royce name plate welded on and blended in with, surprisingly not filller, but plaster of paris......I could go on but I think you get the idea.
By: - 20th January 2010 at 10:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi SteveNo, she'll not be a flyer. Imagine how hard it would be to get the 'new' wings certified! In fact, we'd have to take all of her apart and put her back together again in front of the appropriate people (at great expense) to get her certified now. Not to mention the substitution of airworthy parts (at the moment best reserved where possible for flyers) for many sound but non-airworthy ones. So, for the forseeable, she'll be a ground runner. Which is a shame.
But who knows what lies in the distant future?
Beermat
I am not being critical of your intentions with the rebuild of this aircraft, its very commendable. I also do not fully understand the difference in structure between fabric and metal covered wings other than the external appearance, but would it not be far far easier/cheaper to build some wings in wood/metal that are fabric covered, they would look completely authentic.
Please explain the structural difference, I always thought it was just the external surface that was different.
Richard
By: - 20th January 2010 at 13:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The chap posts here as Beaufighter VI (found the thread he posted on last year). I believe that Rochford was also an EAG member as well, but don't take my word for it, I have a memory like a... like a... you know, with holes in.Adrian
Peter Rushen of The Fighter Collection?
Cees
By: - 20th January 2010 at 13:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Surely the various archives and museums must have quite a few photos of Fabric Wings being built. (If you come across a cache, please post- I would be very interested to see them....)
The book "Sydney Camm and the Hurricane" has a couple of photos of fabric wings being built, if I recall correctly.
Good Luck with this most ambitious part of your project.
Posts: 3,447
By: Beermat - 18th January 2010 at 10:57
As posted elsewhere, the CBFS are busy putting together an early Hurricane, complete with fabric wing.. Come next weekend, yours truly is going to be back at work bashing together wing spars in a way no-one's done for 70 years or so.
Although we have many and various plans on paper for the rather rare early wing (as people here will know, internally it is entirely different from the much more common, standard later metal-covered wing) what we don't have is all the original material in terms of actual, existing structural components to work from, apart from our precious (to us) front spar section. I'm sure everyone here will appreciate that the notoriously tricky to reproduce Hawker tubular Warren truss construction when applied to a wing's internal structure and combined with webs to make a zig-zag of mini-spars as it was in this case is an absolute minefield.
So, to the point of this post. Does anybody out there have any relics of these early wings whatsoever? Parts we could use as patterns for sheer plates, castings and external ribs, no matter how fragmentary, would be invaluable to us! Not to keep, just to look at!!
I know its quite a long shot - even the few aircraft built like this were quickly re-fitted with new wings as they became available, so wrecks have got to be literally thin on the ground.
Thanks!
Matt