Dangerous instruments again (yes I know)

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Member for

14 years 6 months

Posts: 2,172

Question,

Are there possibilities to replace the "suspect" instrument dials with good quality reproductions. I am referring to the British instruments wartime period.
Cees

Original post

Member for

19 years 2 months

Posts: 5,196

depends if you like mine old chap!!

I do faces for most instruments and bezels.....btw I am not a business or touting for trade....I just recognised a problem in my collection and solutionised!!!!:D

Member for

14 years 6 months

Posts: 2,172

Tony,

Any samples? I like it when problems are being solved.

Cees:)

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 8,464

Problem is that they pose little danger until you disturb the faces. What do you do with the faces once you have removed them?

Bruce

Member for

14 years 6 months

Posts: 2,172

Well, it seems like there are some developments going on over here where people are being harrassed for possession of certain instruments. Cees

Member for

20 years

Posts: 278

Problem is that they pose little danger until you disturb the faces.

Bruce

In the Netherlands, at the moment some civil servant pose much danger to such instruments! If you have a few instruments at a shelf there is not much danger, but if you have a complete panel and you show it in a museum or at a show you can have real problems. The instruments containing radioactive material will be confiscated and proper stored at your expense:mad:

Regards,

Mathieu.

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 348

I have just surveyed all of my instruments and switches, both in the Hunter, in my Vulcan panels collection and in storage. Some surprising results ....

  • GM4F compass DG flags are hot - well we knew that. Barely anything above background at >12"
  • E2 compass! But not E2B
  • Mk2A Accelerometer - low count rate at the face
  • P11 Compass - pretty hot at the face even with the 2 layers of glass
  • Early (Mk1?) Gyro Horizon - extremely hot at the face. Well above background at >12". Also showing high count rate at the vac port indicating Radon gas (Radium breaks down into Radon)
  • A couple of Rotax toggle switches have radium beads in the end and are pretty hot

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz68/vulcanpilot/GyroCompass1.jpg

I'm in the process of working out the dose rates based on the count rate, but I know the hunter is well below the required limit.

For info, have a looksee here.... look under the heading 'Vintage Aircraft Restoration

I was quite sceptical about the issues until I started looking into this a bit further, and especially since I surveyed my kit. I didn't want to get caught out if the 'man from the quango' suddenly turned up on my doorstep.

Member for

19 years

Posts: 2,895

What's the going rate for a gieger counter??

Roger Smith.

Member for

16 years 3 months

Posts: 1,668

The one I got a Xmas was an ex civil defense - going for ca. 70. Only issue is that they are only good for beta and gamma - to get alpha - you need to double this.

CDV 700 is the number

You have to be careful as these are the corrcet ones for what we are talking about. There are some cheaper detectors - which are for post apocylpse large amounts of rad - and useless for small scale.

Can you add a lead crystal front glass and mask the emmission ?

Member for

15 years 2 months

Posts: 544

I've found with a DRSB 01 surveymetre that from about 2 feet away and in a detolf cabinet I only get the background number of clicks, going with the information I posted in the link and my own surveying of my instruments I'm not concerned, the main thing in my eyes is to be aware that some instruments are radioactive, the dust can be dangerous and to therefore take the necessary precautions to prevent unecessary exposure to it.

Member for

16 years 10 months

Posts: 177

Anyone know why there isn't a ban on collecting old wrist watches? They suffer the same problems and are worn next to the skin http://www.trusted-forwarder.org/elgin/help/luminous_dials.html even some AFV's used in the gulf war used by Iraq had luminous dials. Interesting to read about the 'Radium Girls' and how they had to fight for justice. Interesting to also read about a company getting fined some years back in the UK for having old BT Luminous Trimphone dials in a skip and they were Tritium not radium which i believe is safer.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 8,464

I bought a professional one and check my outgoing instruments.

XF940 - There are two types of Horizon Mk 1 - One 'is' and one 'isnt' as it were. I have seen examples of both - likewise 6A/1299 RPM's, Boost gauges and so on.....

Bruce

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 348

...even some AFV's used in the gulf war used by Iraq had luminous dials.

I think the quantity of DU shells used in the Gulf War was probably more of an issue than the odd luminous dial :D

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 8,464

The link to the HSE site is worrying - next step will be to criminalise it, and they'll find them all in landfill - nice and safe then!

Bruce

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 348


The link to the HSE site is worrying - next step will be to criminalise it, and they'll find them all in landfill - nice and safe then!

That article is dated 2002 though, so they have been dragging their heels somewhat. I have a feeling though that things may start to kick off 'soon'.

Talking of landfill, that's probably safer than what the MOD did at Dalgety Bay north of Edinburgh.... read all about it here

Member for

18 years 2 months

Posts: 7,742

That article is dated 2002 though, so they have been dragging their heels somewhat. I have a feeling though that things may start to kick off 'soon'.

I’ve just checked and my first recorded communication on this topic came from BAPC in October 2001. Since then some organisations and individuals have insisted that it’s not an issue; whilst others have acted and taken the recognised appropriate steps.

The situation is only going to become more regulated, not less. Judging by the earlier posts it’s not just a British issue; “Times they’re changing!”

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 8,464

That Dalgety Bay report is interesting particularly the analysis which on first read does not find a link between the radium from the destroyed instruments, and skin cancer....

Bruce

Member for

16 years 7 months

Posts: 10,647

It might be worth clarifying what's what re instruments.
ie was the paint with the radioactivity only used up to a certain time, is infra-red paint different etc.
Or for all are sakes best not to keep raising it on forums?:confused:

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 348

I think the main 'issue' may be events like Cockpitfest, particularly if a member of the public is allowed to sit in a cockpit or be close to a display that has lots of early and unchecked instruments, though I'd say that for such a brief exposure, any dose will be negligable. But the problem is that if one of the quango's sees it as another 'something' to regulate and gain extra feathers in their cap, it will come at a price to all of us. You can guarantee that once they know you have one or many radioactive items, you will either have to pay to be registered, carry out complex and onerous risk assesments or pay to have a professional body to carry it out for you, or pay to have the items disposed of.

I also think some of the museums are overly cautious (scared) and as a consequence ban all public access to cockpits 'just in case'.

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 348

That Dalgety Bay report is interesting particularly the analysis which on first read does not find a link between the radium from the destroyed instruments, and skin cancer....

Bruce

Don't think Radium is a risk re. skin cancer. It's because it's mainly a beta emitter and generally skin is too thick for the beta particles to penetrate too far. The main risk for radium is ingestion or getting it in your eyes or in a cut.

The gamma radiation is of concern if you are exposed for any length of time which could put you over the safe dose. But things like flying (in airliners & mil jets etc) and having an x-ray will probably contribute far more than infrequent exposure.