By: Prop Strike
- 9th January 2020 at 09:19Permalink
I imagine they have both come to realise that the whole thing is totally' fubar'ed , and have run a mile. Certainly not the sort of thing you want on your CV.
''I was heavily involved in the complete redesign and relaunch of the popular Key Historic Aviation Forum''
The continuing silence from Key must be rapidly exhausting the patience of those loyal followers who are still logging in to see what is happening. It has already exhausted the patience of many others who have gone elsewhere. Perhaps all those who designed this new platform are no longer with the company and someone else now has to familiarise themselves with the system design and programming before being able to address the problems identified on this thread. Or is something actually happening behind the scenes?
Is anyone from Key reading these comments? To whom should we send a PM? Could we get it (or something) done by 31 January?
From a personal perspective, the thread I started over 7 years ago on the Wreckage of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) has accumulated 64 pages of photos, diagrams and discussion and had received over 195,000 views before the disaster which has befallen us (current number of views unknown). The photo-gallery could be transported anywhere, but not the thread itself. It is topics like this that should be at the heart of this forum. Is all this going completely to waste?
Come on Key. Where are you? What are you doing? Tell us please that it is not dead yet.
Quite right BobKat. Together with one or two others that have already gone across (and that I and many others are now following in their new home), yours is one of those marathon contributions that made the Key thread what it WAS (and is no more). It's sad that the Key people do not seem to realise that. I know that not every one wants to know about real, well researched historical data, but some of us DO. And many of us have left. I decided to stick it out as there is still life in the old thread, although it needs support. For how long will that support last? We are getting fewer by the day.
By: Stratofreighter
- 9th January 2020 at 15:54Permalink
The Military Aviation part was already slowing down considerably before September 2019. And it is not really picking up so far.
The Fly Past / Historic Forum actually IS picking up steam again, slowly. More and more contributions over the last few days, in spite off the current persistent problems.
BUT: I would now really like to see the restoration of certain functions.
-The embed-function for Youtube clips, for example.
Yes, I can do it, but no, it is not easy. I want that "embed-icon/button" back, and sharpish, too. ❗️?
Also the "PreView-function" ❗️ has not yet surfaced again. Not having that function before actually clicking on "post" is rather a nuisance. Has even more of a priority than the "video-embed-function".
It seems some subjects -or messages can be edited after posting, but some cannot. ?
Plus, there is still BobKat's list.
Mirror page numbers on top and bottom of page (to avoid scrolling down) - I'll check on this and come back to you
Remove (or reposition) ‘Privacy settings’ tag when use of Cookies approved - I'll check on this and come back to you
Content of My Account (historic private messages/photos) lost - They're not lost. Scheduled for a later update as theres a fair amount of work to do on this.
Reinstate ‘subscribed’ threads and e-mail messages for new posts - Should be released in the next update
Edit function on own posts (being worked on in response to jeepman’s post today, but first raised some while ago) - Is being worked on
Show number of views of thread and uploaded photos - Scheduled for a later update
Restoring numbering of posts - Scheduled for a later update
The year 2020 is now a week old.
If by the 1st of February 2020 some of the above have not been restored/there are not tangible new results -and there is no noticeable steady progress as well,
then people had better vote with their feet.
Yes, this is some sort of a deadline. This has been going on for three months now. Patience is running thin on the east side of the North Sea/The Channel, not to mention the UK...
...Unless Key Publishing wants everyone to run off to UKAR / UK Airshow Review, of course... The new "Historic Forum" over there is really picking up speed, now.
I've no idea whether there is an email notification to him to say there is a PM waiting (as was previously the case), so we'll just have to hope he is logging in to find out!
No need for apologies Lyffe. When I said to whom should we send a PM, I was thinking back to an old (unnumbered) post which suggested that perhaps we had a line to Boris - hence my reference to 31 January!!
Peter, if you are moderating and reading this thread, do you have any way of contacting somebody who knows what is going on?
This is getting very close to the last throw of the dice.
After 3 months of enduring this fiasco, still can’t edit our own posts, still have the irritating animated header and we haven’t seen sight nor sound of a Key staffer for months. All the mollifying Cr@p about sorting things out was just that.
I’ve had enough, that’s it.
A great forum sacrificed at the altar of technical self indulgence.
Sadly, I have no more information than anyone else.
The forum was in decline way before the latest update, and this hasn't helped one bit. I'm keeping an eye on the new UKAR forum, but to be honest, the actual new activity on it is little more than it is here. They have moved a raft of historic threads over from their main waffle page, but at the moment, there is little new activity. I don't look at WiX much these days, but even there, it isn't as busy as once it was.
Fact is, as I have noted before, forums everywhere are in decline. So much stuff is on social media these days, that they really cant compete.
By: avion ancien
- 10th January 2020 at 11:47Permalink
Because my interest principally is in aviation history, I'm tempted by the Air-Britain Message Board forum. However this doesn't seem hugely more active than this forum or the UKAR historic aviation forum. It occurs to me that this might be because the 'meaty' discussion takes place on AB-IX, which is accessible only to A-B members (unless, of course, Bruce's comment about fora has hit the nail on the head). I wonder if anyone who is an A-B member can tell me whether or not that is so because, if it is, I might finally have to bite the bullet and join A-B (and/or le Trait d'Union)!
By: Trolley Aux
- 10th January 2020 at 11:55Permalink
I agree that traffic here slowed from the last two previous upgrade and the one before this did a fair bit.
I do also think we are loosing historic aviation minded people at a great rate due to age also, many passing on and the young get this #AVGEEK generation are not into what their forerunners were.
My interest in aviation started in the 1960s only maybe 20 years after the end of WWII with bomb craters and damage still evident, a lot still is there today but who cares? I do, I still can see it but heading very nearly to 65 years growing up with those films, Angels One Five, Dambusters, Great Escape fuelled that interest.
Maybe this is as good as its going to get, if so I will stick with the slow traffic updates as I would hate this place to disappear. had to re register, it does not matter I do not worry about how many posts I have made here it may cause others undue stress.
AIrshows on decline, we used to have an abundance here in the UK now a a dozen max. I still thank Key for supplying the forum, this update was is a mess but come on we are all adult enough to do what we do best, discuss vintage historic aviation interests.
As of now, a little after midday UK time, my PM yesterday to jamesm remains unread. Not a good sign. I have sent a personal email to Peter, our moderator, in the hope that he is still with us and might be able to help, but I see Bruce has replied and is as much in the dark as the rest of us.
Like Trolley Aux, I expect that I will stick with this forum as I, too, don’t want to see it disappear.
In my working days it was often said that more kudos was sometimes obtained by the actions taken to put something right that had gone wrong, than from getting it right in the first place. Whether this is true or not, it first requires an acknowledgement that something has gone wrong to be followed by a willingness to put it right. Sadly, there is, as yet, little evidence from Key of either of these things.
In a nautical context, the ship is floundering. Where is the salvage crew? If you can introduce yourself, we will welcome you and we can hopefully work together to get this put right.
By: Prop Strike
- 10th January 2020 at 13:33Permalink
The whole of the Key Aero forum network is stone dead or on life support. Of the nine boards, 5 have been moribund for months, and the others stagger on with spasmodic contributions, and minimal responses.
There is no indication now that Key intend to remedy this situation, and it is too late anyway. Contributors, confidence, interest - GONE.
BUT, the historic recreational community certainly still wants and needs a usable, comfortable and lively forum. Social media is very unsatisfactory and transitory and is NOT a substitute.
There is an organisation at the heart of the UK historic aircraft scene presently working on the premise of establishing a new forum substantially along the lines of the one we used to cherish.
At present we have forums with an impressive but narrower remit, such as The Aerodrome (WW1 content ), Warbird Info Exchange etc,( mainly WW2 types ) UKAR. but the ideal platform embraces all these specialities. Nature abhors a vacuum. and just for the moment the sort of forum which we need is not available, but hopefully, there will be a much better option available before too long.
Whilst I agree with Bruce that there has been a general decline in Aviation Forum use,the big difference between the other forums and this (Key) forum is that other forums have not tried to change their basic layout and also (and perhaps more crucially) the other forums have retained all their functionality.
One might have thought that key would have learnt a lesson from the previous Forum 'Update' which was also rolled out prematurely (ie before it was fit for purpose),but no - this time they rolled it out with almost no functionality of basic forum requirements/functions.
Pprune changed their home page some months ago to some new and useless layout but at least had the sense to allow users to select (if they wished) the 'Classic' page which is neat/simple/tidy - yes you guessed it - I immediately selected the 'classic' page layout.
The lack of progress/info/interest from Key is astounding.
bazv: You mention Pprune. I have for long been visiting their Aviation History and Nostalgia forum (and indeed other forums on that site for my other interests). Not a patch on Key (as it was then) but it could be made better if a bunch of enthusiasts used it more often. I know that Pprune is the so-called Professional Pilots' Rumour Network but others than they can contribute, and there are interesting tidbits of history to be had. Any others have opinions?
Posts: 936
By: BobKat - 9th January 2020 at 08:18 Permalink
And is Jamesm still here? Or indeed anyone who can sort this out? Can we have a response from Key, please?
Posts: 456
By: Prop Strike - 9th January 2020 at 09:19 Permalink
I imagine they have both come to realise that the whole thing is totally' fubar'ed , and have run a mile. Certainly not the sort of thing you want on your CV.
''I was heavily involved in the complete redesign and relaunch of the popular Key Historic Aviation Forum''
DELETE - DELETE - DELETE !
Posts: 313
By: MFowler - 9th January 2020 at 14:38 Permalink
*que the scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail"
"I'm not dead yet."
"Here, he says he's not dead yet!"
"Oh, he'll be stone cold dead in just a minute."
"But I don't want to get on the cart ..."
"Oh, don't be such a baby!"
Posts: 936
By: BobKat - 9th January 2020 at 15:07 Permalink
The continuing silence from Key must be rapidly exhausting the patience of those loyal followers who are still logging in to see what is happening. It has already exhausted the patience of many others who have gone elsewhere. Perhaps all those who designed this new platform are no longer with the company and someone else now has to familiarise themselves with the system design and programming before being able to address the problems identified on this thread. Or is something actually happening behind the scenes?
Is anyone from Key reading these comments? To whom should we send a PM? Could we get it (or something) done by 31 January?
From a personal perspective, the thread I started over 7 years ago on the Wreckage of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) has accumulated 64 pages of photos, diagrams and discussion and had received over 195,000 views before the disaster which has befallen us (current number of views unknown). The photo-gallery could be transported anywhere, but not the thread itself. It is topics like this that should be at the heart of this forum. Is all this going completely to waste?
Come on Key. Where are you? What are you doing? Tell us please that it is not dead yet.
Posts: 2,115
By: l.garey - 9th January 2020 at 15:26 Permalink
Quite right BobKat. Together with one or two others that have already gone across (and that I and many others are now following in their new home), yours is one of those marathon contributions that made the Key thread what it WAS (and is no more). It's sad that the Key people do not seem to realise that. I know that not every one wants to know about real, well researched historical data, but some of us DO. And many of us have left. I decided to stick it out as there is still life in the old thread, although it needs support. For how long will that support last? We are getting fewer by the day.
Laurence
Posts: 1,227
By: Stratofreighter - 9th January 2020 at 15:54 Permalink
The Military Aviation part was already slowing down considerably before September 2019. And it is not really picking up so far.
The Fly Past / Historic Forum actually IS picking up steam again, slowly. More and more contributions over the last few days, in spite off the current persistent problems.
BUT: I would now really like to see the restoration of certain functions.
-The embed-function for Youtube clips, for example.
Yes, I can do it, but no, it is not easy. I want that "embed-icon/button" back, and sharpish, too. ❗️?
Also the "PreView-function" ❗️ has not yet surfaced again. Not having that function before actually clicking on "post" is rather a nuisance. Has even more of a priority than the "video-embed-function".
It seems some subjects -or messages can be edited after posting, but some cannot. ?
Plus, there is still BobKat's list.
Restoring numbering of posts - Scheduled for a later update
The year 2020 is now a week old.
If by the 1st of February 2020 some of the above have not been restored/there are not tangible new results -and there is no noticeable steady progress as well,
then people had better vote with their feet.
Yes, this is some sort of a deadline. This has been going on for three months now. Patience is running thin on the east side of the North Sea/The Channel, not to mention the UK...
...Unless Key Publishing wants everyone to run off to UKAR / UK Airshow Review, of course... The new "Historic Forum" over there is really picking up speed, now.
The clock is ticking ❗️
Posts: 367
By: Lyffe - 9th January 2020 at 16:57 Permalink
You could try PMing Jamesm, bobkat, either by going back to page 13 or trying https://www.key.aero/private_message/create?recipient=48717
Posts: 936
By: BobKat - 9th January 2020 at 17:38 Permalink
Thanks Lyffe. I've tried jamesm.
I've no idea whether there is an email notification to him to say there is a PM waiting (as was previously the case), so we'll just have to hope he is logging in to find out!
Posts: 367
By: Lyffe - 9th January 2020 at 18:00 Permalink
Apologies BobKat, I should have realised you would have tried already.
Posts: 936
By: BobKat - 9th January 2020 at 18:46 Permalink
No need for apologies Lyffe. When I said to whom should we send a PM, I was thinking back to an old (unnumbered) post which suggested that perhaps we had a line to Boris - hence my reference to 31 January!!
Peter, if you are moderating and reading this thread, do you have any way of contacting somebody who knows what is going on?
This is getting very close to the last throw of the dice.
Posts: 1,988
By: jeepman - 10th January 2020 at 06:34 Permalink
After 3 months of enduring this fiasco, still can’t edit our own posts, still have the irritating animated header and we haven’t seen sight nor sound of a Key staffer for months. All the mollifying Cr@p about sorting things out was just that.
I’ve had enough, that’s it.
A great forum sacrificed at the altar of technical self indulgence.
Posts: 8,464
By: Bruce - 10th January 2020 at 11:16 Permalink
Sadly, I have no more information than anyone else.
The forum was in decline way before the latest update, and this hasn't helped one bit. I'm keeping an eye on the new UKAR forum, but to be honest, the actual new activity on it is little more than it is here. They have moved a raft of historic threads over from their main waffle page, but at the moment, there is little new activity. I don't look at WiX much these days, but even there, it isn't as busy as once it was.
Fact is, as I have noted before, forums everywhere are in decline. So much stuff is on social media these days, that they really cant compete.
Posts: 5,927
By: avion ancien - 10th January 2020 at 11:47 Permalink
Because my interest principally is in aviation history, I'm tempted by the Air-Britain Message Board forum. However this doesn't seem hugely more active than this forum or the UKAR historic aviation forum. It occurs to me that this might be because the 'meaty' discussion takes place on AB-IX, which is accessible only to A-B members (unless, of course, Bruce's comment about fora has hit the nail on the head). I wonder if anyone who is an A-B member can tell me whether or not that is so because, if it is, I might finally have to bite the bullet and join A-B (and/or le Trait d'Union)!
Posts: 716
By: Trolley Aux - 10th January 2020 at 11:55 Permalink
I agree that traffic here slowed from the last two previous upgrade and the one before this did a fair bit.
I do also think we are loosing historic aviation minded people at a great rate due to age also, many passing on and the young get this #AVGEEK generation are not into what their forerunners were.
My interest in aviation started in the 1960s only maybe 20 years after the end of WWII with bomb craters and damage still evident, a lot still is there today but who cares? I do, I still can see it but heading very nearly to 65 years growing up with those films, Angels One Five, Dambusters, Great Escape fuelled that interest.
Maybe this is as good as its going to get, if so I will stick with the slow traffic updates as I would hate this place to disappear. had to re register, it does not matter I do not worry about how many posts I have made here it may cause others undue stress.
AIrshows on decline, we used to have an abundance here in the UK now a a dozen max. I still thank Key for supplying the forum, this update was is a mess but come on we are all adult enough to do what we do best, discuss vintage historic aviation interests.
Posts: 936
By: BobKat - 10th January 2020 at 12:24 Permalink
As of now, a little after midday UK time, my PM yesterday to jamesm remains unread. Not a good sign. I have sent a personal email to Peter, our moderator, in the hope that he is still with us and might be able to help, but I see Bruce has replied and is as much in the dark as the rest of us.
Like Trolley Aux, I expect that I will stick with this forum as I, too, don’t want to see it disappear.
In my working days it was often said that more kudos was sometimes obtained by the actions taken to put something right that had gone wrong, than from getting it right in the first place. Whether this is true or not, it first requires an acknowledgement that something has gone wrong to be followed by a willingness to put it right. Sadly, there is, as yet, little evidence from Key of either of these things.
In a nautical context, the ship is floundering. Where is the salvage crew? If you can introduce yourself, we will welcome you and we can hopefully work together to get this put right.
Posts: 456
By: Prop Strike - 10th January 2020 at 13:33 Permalink
The whole of the Key Aero forum network is stone dead or on life support. Of the nine boards, 5 have been moribund for months, and the others stagger on with spasmodic contributions, and minimal responses.
There is no indication now that Key intend to remedy this situation, and it is too late anyway. Contributors, confidence, interest - GONE.
BUT, the historic recreational community certainly still wants and needs a usable, comfortable and lively forum. Social media is very unsatisfactory and transitory and is NOT a substitute.
There is an organisation at the heart of the UK historic aircraft scene presently working on the premise of establishing a new forum substantially along the lines of the one we used to cherish.
At present we have forums with an impressive but narrower remit, such as The Aerodrome (WW1 content ), Warbird Info Exchange etc,( mainly WW2 types ) UKAR. but the ideal platform embraces all these specialities. Nature abhors a vacuum. and just for the moment the sort of forum which we need is not available, but hopefully, there will be a much better option available before too long.
Posts: 6,044
By: bazv - 10th January 2020 at 13:42 Permalink
Whilst I agree with Bruce that there has been a general decline in Aviation Forum use,the big difference between the other forums and this (Key) forum is that other forums have not tried to change their basic layout and also (and perhaps more crucially) the other forums have retained all their functionality.
One might have thought that key would have learnt a lesson from the previous Forum 'Update' which was also rolled out prematurely (ie before it was fit for purpose),but no - this time they rolled it out with almost no functionality of basic forum requirements/functions.
Pprune changed their home page some months ago to some new and useless layout but at least had the sense to allow users to select (if they wished) the 'Classic' page which is neat/simple/tidy - yes you guessed it - I immediately selected the 'classic' page layout.
The lack of progress/info/interest from Key is astounding.
Posts: 1,919
By: Air Ministry - 10th January 2020 at 15:03 Permalink
So, what's everyone's favourite Mark of Spitfire? ☺️
Posts: 2,115
By: l.garey - 10th January 2020 at 15:04 Permalink
bazv: You mention Pprune. I have for long been visiting their Aviation History and Nostalgia forum (and indeed other forums on that site for my other interests). Not a patch on Key (as it was then) but it could be made better if a bunch of enthusiasts used it more often. I know that Pprune is the so-called Professional Pilots' Rumour Network but others than they can contribute, and there are interesting tidbits of history to be had. Any others have opinions?
Laurence
Posts: 91
By: jamesm - 10th January 2020 at 16:39 Permalink
Hi,
There will be a more to follow from the key.aero team.
I can assure you that your comments are being read and fed back.
Currently the development priorities are as follows:
Editable posts
Page number placements at the top of threads.
Subscribed threads (email notifications).
Happy New Year