By: stuart gowans
- 5th October 2019 at 07:48Permalink
At the time of the last forum migration, I remember preaching tolerance, in the hope that it would sort itself out, personally I don't think it ever did, and was definitely a factor in my not using this forum as I used to; this is however much worse, whether a temporary layout I know not, but if it doesn't return to a more user friendly format there will be no need for moderators at all.
By: avion ancien
- 5th October 2019 at 09:30Permalink
As we are told that moderators have been re-instated, perhaps one of you can merge the present three 'new format' threads into one.
I don't believe that mention has been made of the disappearance of the 'edit' function. I cannot perceive any good reason why there should be any objection to allowing posts to be edited. Furthermore it will avoid a preponderance of posts opening with 'what I meant to say in my last post was .....'.
And finally, when I insert a gap between multiple paragraphs in a post, so that they are evident as such, why oh why are the paragraphs closed up when the post appears in the discussion?
By: avion ancien
- 5th October 2019 at 09:41Permalink
Edit: I've just noticed that there is an edit function! Has it only just been reinstated or is it, perhaps a consequence of my advancing years, that I just missed it!
New
Posts: 1
By: Furious Fedaykin
- 5th October 2019 at 12:02Permalink
Khalem I appreciate that you were not expecting the level of response to this change and I am not going to go over the ground already covered but I just want to emphasise how much of a sucker punch this is to long term forum members like myself!
I will also point out that I am actually the Fedaykin account and have been a member for nearly fifteen years! Fifteen years of my life and thousands of posts...I'M LOCKED OUT AND ANNOYED!!!
Why did you force a password change on members??????!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have attempted to log in, my password doesn't work and my email is not recognised! I might have used a different email account when I joined, I honestly don't remember but this forced reset means FIFTEEN YEARS OF MY LIFE IS FLUSHED DOWN THE DRAIN!
Khalem can you contact me ASAP so that my REAL account can have its password reset so I can access KeyPub forum again!!!
Working in IT services myself I am pretty forgiving of changes but being locked out is rather trying my patience!
When I go to 'my account', it seems to have pages of links under 'my content', none of which I have visited, saved or have any interest in. What is the story there?
New
Posts: 4,796
By: ZRX61
- 5th October 2019 at 17:56Permalink- Edited 5th October 2019 at 18:05
I think this Khalem bloke needs to rethink his career choice... What a complete cluster.
If he truly wants to improve things he needs to undo ALL of this upgrade, go back to how it was last week & then resign.
Should have stayed working at Greggs...
By: WasSeafuryfan
- 5th October 2019 at 18:17Permalink- Edited 5th October 2019 at 18:18
my old email address has long gone. So it’s me, with a modded name. Yup, photo addition seamless. Works well on the iPad. With thanks to North Weald Photo Boss.
Attachments
New
By: Anonymous
- 5th October 2019 at 21:32Permalink- Edited 30th November 2019 at 21:48
I went to the 'Historic' forum and typed 'Strikemaster' into the search box. 29 results came up -BUT- it seems that I have to pay £69-99 to read them!!!!!!!!
Another retrograde step in my opinion.
Also In 'My Account' all my private messages have disappeared, so I cannot contact a person I only know on the forum.
By: powerandpassion
- 6th October 2019 at 00:46Permalink
Key: It’s my property, I do what I want. Me : Your forum is an Essential Service. It is a refuge from the troubles of the world where I enjoy good company and learn from others. When you don’t tell me you are going offline, it distresses me. When you go back on line, and the things that were so worthwhile and enjoyable are not there, it distresses me. Key : We need to cut costs and increase revenue. Me : I have entrusted thousands of unrenumerated hours of content to you. In return, I get access to thousands of unrenumerated hours of desired content from other members and I accept banner ads. I respect that you must make a profit to be sustainable and for the forum to be sustainable. But your experiments with new revenue models are missing all the things that attract me to the forum. The way you force change is not aligning me with you. Surely we could work together to come up with something better? Key: We don’t have much time or money to put into this, publishing is a tough game. What do you want? Me : (a) As an Essential Service, notify you audience before you go offline, give reasons and expected timelines. Costs nothing, earns understanding. (b) Within reason, run new formats offline with a small group of unrenumerated, volunteer members to test and resolve predictable problems. At least when you launch, you have these volunteer members by your side, to help in the launch, if the process is genuine (c) Explore a Subscription model, with three categories : Corporate, (Bigger $) Member (modest) and Pensioner ( extremely modest). Develop a package of benefits for each category. If folks don’t subscribe, still allow default access for joining, posting, but limit messaging and searching. Set up prizes and benefits for Subscribers, like magazine issues. Trust in your Subscribers and give them an awesome experience and you will, over time, create a sustainable business model. Key: Paper and ink is up, postage is up, rent is up, subs down, pensions down, the economy is down, we need to put you steam boys and propellor heads into the same room and you need to share the same instant coffee and we don’t have much time to listen to all these ideas, with respect. Me : Understand, but you could lose the lot here. I probably need to get other members who also have the power to give or withhold thousands of hours of unrenumerated content to collectively bargain with you. I understand you must make a profit and this is not personal. We are both aligned around the idea of a sustainable, enjoyable, compelling forum. My passion is Historic content. So I want to set up a FB Group called ‘Forum Historic Community’ . Search it up. It is there in case the forum arbitrarily disappears or functionality like messaging or archived content is not restored. At least members can keep in touch and perhaps Collectively Bargain with Key to come up with a Win-Win model. The Forum is too precious to lose, drop by drop, by the withdrawal of alienated members or Key. ‘Forum Historic Community’
By: lanc35
- 6th October 2019 at 10:56Permalink- Edited 6th October 2019 at 11:02
I think there was a lot of value posted by members in the forums, but currently the search results seem to go to articles only.
Seems like magazine subscription will be required to get standard functionality from the forums?
Perhaps Key aren't getting any return on the forums and seem content that people will move to other forums or facebook groups?
It seems more like this is designed for commenting on articles as opposed to the old forum style?
I hope it returns to the functionality of the old forums.
By: Junk Collector
- 6th October 2019 at 11:28Permalink
Fully agree with others, this new layout is terrible, while things always change and change is needed, it doesn't follow it is always for the better, truly awful
By: khalem.chapman
- 7th October 2019 at 10:25Permalink- Edited 7th October 2019 at 10:25
Morning all,
Sorry for the late reply on some comments as I have been away from home this weekend.
Firstly, I want to address that we are going to be working with developers a lot this week to influence changes you've suggested.
My second comment is aimed at - ZRX61 - Yes, I've previously worked at Greggs, full marks for stalking my social media accounts. I have no clue who you are but I think you've misread this situation. I am not a computer techie, not a dedicated forum designer or whatever. I'm just a journalist who offered to act as a bridge between Key and you, the users. Personal insults towards me made on here and on my private social media (which has happened) will not be tolerated. I'm literally an enthusiast who wants this to succeed and believe that good communication is key. Its going to take some time but its out of my control after I pass it on.
Moving on (sorry about the rant) - Furious Fedaykin, I did not personally force an email change, it was a security measure recommended to us. Unfortunately out of my hands, but I'll get an email sent over to your address to reactivate your original account.
As per private messaging, that plan was in place long before I started here but I'll see what developers of the forum think on that.
I'll get developers to look at the search bar, I believe its on the list and that definitely needs to be improved and changed.
I wish you all a great start to the week,
Kind regards,
Khalem
By: jamesm
- 7th October 2019 at 11:37Permalink- Edited 7th October 2019 at 11:39
" I went to the 'Historic' forum and typed 'Strikemaster' into the search box. 29 results came up -BUT- it seems that I have to pay £69-99 to read them!!!!!!!! "
The forum is part of key.aero. You have clicked on the Historic button in the yellow menu bar which takes you to news articles published by FlyPast, Aeroplane Magazine etc. For access to some of the articles requires a subscription. The forum is free.
By: Aeronut2019
- 7th October 2019 at 11:51Permalink
Just like nearly everyone else I’ve had to reset my Username and password (just couldn’t remember it). But I expected that.
Being a semi computer literate old fart I don’t use a smart phone and so the format on my PC looks odd (but I’ll live with it). However what does get me upset is tapping the ‘Last update’ tag and getting not only the start of a thread but one that apparently was started 49 years 9 months ago ?
I know this is the Historical Forum but were these threads really started before the invention of the internet?
I do have some limited moderation powers, but they are restricted purely to editing and deleting posts. I cannot do anything else at all at the moment.
I shall be patient. Both Khalem and James have said that they are working on it. Once we can see what we end up with, we can all decide what to do next.
By: avion ancien
- 7th October 2019 at 13:44Permalink
Thank you, Bruce. I have learnt something. I had believed that moderators' powers were more extensive - hence my suggestion - but evidently I was wrong. Are those powers the same as they were before the latest changes or are they now more limited?
Posts: 2,025
By: stuart gowans - 5th October 2019 at 07:48 Permalink
At the time of the last forum migration, I remember preaching tolerance, in the hope that it would sort itself out, personally I don't think it ever did, and was definitely a factor in my not using this forum as I used to; this is however much worse, whether a temporary layout I know not, but if it doesn't return to a more user friendly format there will be no need for moderators at all.
Posts: 5,927
By: avion ancien - 5th October 2019 at 09:30 Permalink
As we are told that moderators have been re-instated, perhaps one of you can merge the present three 'new format' threads into one.
I don't believe that mention has been made of the disappearance of the 'edit' function. I cannot perceive any good reason why there should be any objection to allowing posts to be edited. Furthermore it will avoid a preponderance of posts opening with 'what I meant to say in my last post was .....'.
And finally, when I insert a gap between multiple paragraphs in a post, so that they are evident as such, why oh why are the paragraphs closed up when the post appears in the discussion?
Posts: 5,927
By: avion ancien - 5th October 2019 at 09:41 Permalink
Edit: I've just noticed that there is an edit function! Has it only just been reinstated or is it, perhaps a consequence of my advancing years, that I just missed it!
Posts: 1
By: Furious Fedaykin - 5th October 2019 at 12:02 Permalink
Khalem I appreciate that you were not expecting the level of response to this change and I am not going to go over the ground already covered but I just want to emphasise how much of a sucker punch this is to long term forum members like myself!
I will also point out that I am actually the Fedaykin account and have been a member for nearly fifteen years! Fifteen years of my life and thousands of posts...I'M LOCKED OUT AND ANNOYED!!!
Why did you force a password change on members??????!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have attempted to log in, my password doesn't work and my email is not recognised! I might have used a different email account when I joined, I honestly don't remember but this forced reset means FIFTEEN YEARS OF MY LIFE IS FLUSHED DOWN THE DRAIN!
Khalem can you contact me ASAP so that my REAL account can have its password reset so I can access KeyPub forum again!!!
Working in IT services myself I am pretty forgiving of changes but being locked out is rather trying my patience!
I look forward to a VERY quick response!
Fedaykin (who is at the moment FURIOUS!)
Posts: 2,024
By: D1566 - 5th October 2019 at 12:30 Permalink
When I go to 'my account', it seems to have pages of links under 'my content', none of which I have visited, saved or have any interest in. What is the story there?
Posts: 4,796
By: ZRX61 - 5th October 2019 at 17:56 Permalink - Edited 5th October 2019 at 18:05
I think this Khalem bloke needs to rethink his career choice... What a complete cluster.
If he truly wants to improve things he needs to undo ALL of this upgrade, go back to how it was last week & then resign.
Should have stayed working at Greggs...
Posts: 1
By: WasSeafuryfan - 5th October 2019 at 18:17 Permalink - Edited 5th October 2019 at 18:18
my old email address has long gone. So it’s me, with a modded name. Yup, photo addition seamless. Works well on the iPad. With thanks to North Weald Photo Boss.
By: Anonymous - 5th October 2019 at 21:32 Permalink - Edited 30th November 2019 at 21:48
I went to the 'Historic' forum and typed 'Strikemaster' into the search box. 29 results came up -BUT- it seems that I have to pay £69-99 to read them!!!!!!!!
Another retrograde step in my opinion.
Also In 'My Account' all my private messages have disappeared, so I cannot contact a person I only know on the forum.
Posts: 1,354
By: powerandpassion - 6th October 2019 at 00:46 Permalink
Key: It’s my property, I do what I want. Me : Your forum is an Essential Service. It is a refuge from the troubles of the world where I enjoy good company and learn from others. When you don’t tell me you are going offline, it distresses me. When you go back on line, and the things that were so worthwhile and enjoyable are not there, it distresses me. Key : We need to cut costs and increase revenue. Me : I have entrusted thousands of unrenumerated hours of content to you. In return, I get access to thousands of unrenumerated hours of desired content from other members and I accept banner ads. I respect that you must make a profit to be sustainable and for the forum to be sustainable. But your experiments with new revenue models are missing all the things that attract me to the forum. The way you force change is not aligning me with you. Surely we could work together to come up with something better? Key: We don’t have much time or money to put into this, publishing is a tough game. What do you want? Me : (a) As an Essential Service, notify you audience before you go offline, give reasons and expected timelines. Costs nothing, earns understanding. (b) Within reason, run new formats offline with a small group of unrenumerated, volunteer members to test and resolve predictable problems. At least when you launch, you have these volunteer members by your side, to help in the launch, if the process is genuine (c) Explore a Subscription model, with three categories : Corporate, (Bigger $) Member (modest) and Pensioner ( extremely modest). Develop a package of benefits for each category. If folks don’t subscribe, still allow default access for joining, posting, but limit messaging and searching. Set up prizes and benefits for Subscribers, like magazine issues. Trust in your Subscribers and give them an awesome experience and you will, over time, create a sustainable business model. Key: Paper and ink is up, postage is up, rent is up, subs down, pensions down, the economy is down, we need to put you steam boys and propellor heads into the same room and you need to share the same instant coffee and we don’t have much time to listen to all these ideas, with respect. Me : Understand, but you could lose the lot here. I probably need to get other members who also have the power to give or withhold thousands of hours of unrenumerated content to collectively bargain with you. I understand you must make a profit and this is not personal. We are both aligned around the idea of a sustainable, enjoyable, compelling forum. My passion is Historic content. So I want to set up a FB Group called ‘Forum Historic Community’ . Search it up. It is there in case the forum arbitrarily disappears or functionality like messaging or archived content is not restored. At least members can keep in touch and perhaps Collectively Bargain with Key to come up with a Win-Win model. The Forum is too precious to lose, drop by drop, by the withdrawal of alienated members or Key. ‘Forum Historic Community’
Posts: 4
By: Patagonian - 6th October 2019 at 09:39 Permalink
I had to create a new account but in Keys defence that's because the email associated with the original account has long gone.
Posts: 119
By: lanc35 - 6th October 2019 at 10:44 Permalink
Im suprised they wiped out the private messages without giving us a heads up.
Another suggestion before the migration is let people update their email address so they could be sent the reset pwd email.
I also agree the content column is too narrow, but I guess it takes up spaces for ads?
Also you get a 404 not found on the old link. They could put in a redirect to help people with an old bookmark that no longer works.
Posts: 119
By: lanc35 - 6th October 2019 at 10:56 Permalink - Edited 6th October 2019 at 11:02
I think there was a lot of value posted by members in the forums, but currently the search results seem to go to articles only.
Seems like magazine subscription will be required to get standard functionality from the forums?
Perhaps Key aren't getting any return on the forums and seem content that people will move to other forums or facebook groups?
It seems more like this is designed for commenting on articles as opposed to the old forum style?
I hope it returns to the functionality of the old forums.
Posts: 1,444
By: Junk Collector - 6th October 2019 at 11:28 Permalink
Fully agree with others, this new layout is terrible, while things always change and change is needed, it doesn't follow it is always for the better, truly awful
Posts: 1,084
By: Paul F - 7th October 2019 at 09:45 Permalink
I found that if you follow the emailed 'change password' link, you can re-use your old password, just enter it in the 'new password' box etc.....
i.e. The software doesn't seem to check that the new password is actually different to the previous one.....
Posts: 59
By: khalem.chapman - 7th October 2019 at 10:25 Permalink - Edited 7th October 2019 at 10:25
Morning all,
Sorry for the late reply on some comments as I have been away from home this weekend.
Firstly, I want to address that we are going to be working with developers a lot this week to influence changes you've suggested.
My second comment is aimed at - ZRX61 - Yes, I've previously worked at Greggs, full marks for stalking my social media accounts. I have no clue who you are but I think you've misread this situation. I am not a computer techie, not a dedicated forum designer or whatever. I'm just a journalist who offered to act as a bridge between Key and you, the users. Personal insults towards me made on here and on my private social media (which has happened) will not be tolerated. I'm literally an enthusiast who wants this to succeed and believe that good communication is key. Its going to take some time but its out of my control after I pass it on.
Moving on (sorry about the rant) - Furious Fedaykin, I did not personally force an email change, it was a security measure recommended to us. Unfortunately out of my hands, but I'll get an email sent over to your address to reactivate your original account.
As per private messaging, that plan was in place long before I started here but I'll see what developers of the forum think on that.
I'll get developers to look at the search bar, I believe its on the list and that definitely needs to be improved and changed.
I wish you all a great start to the week,
Kind regards,
Khalem
Posts: 91
By: jamesm - 7th October 2019 at 11:37 Permalink - Edited 7th October 2019 at 11:39
" I went to the 'Historic' forum and typed 'Strikemaster' into the search box. 29 results came up -BUT- it seems that I have to pay £69-99 to read them!!!!!!!! "
The forum is part of key.aero. You have clicked on the Historic button in the yellow menu bar which takes you to news articles published by FlyPast, Aeroplane Magazine etc. For access to some of the articles requires a subscription. The forum is free.
Posts: 40
By: Aeronut2019 - 7th October 2019 at 11:51 Permalink
Just like nearly everyone else I’ve had to reset my Username and password (just couldn’t remember it). But I expected that.
Being a semi computer literate old fart I don’t use a smart phone and so the format on my PC looks odd (but I’ll live with it). However what does get me upset is tapping the ‘Last update’ tag and getting not only the start of a thread but one that apparently was started 49 years 9 months ago ?
I know this is the Historical Forum but were these threads really started before the invention of the internet?
Posts: 8,464
By: Bruce - 7th October 2019 at 12:36 Permalink
To avion ancien,
I do have some limited moderation powers, but they are restricted purely to editing and deleting posts. I cannot do anything else at all at the moment.
I shall be patient. Both Khalem and James have said that they are working on it. Once we can see what we end up with, we can all decide what to do next.
Posts: 2,025
By: stuart gowans - 7th October 2019 at 13:10 Permalink
Wat is this drop down banner/curtain thing that keeps moving (up and down)and obscuring the top post?
Posts: 5,927
By: avion ancien - 7th October 2019 at 13:44 Permalink
Thank you, Bruce. I have learnt something. I had believed that moderators' powers were more extensive - hence my suggestion - but evidently I was wrong. Are those powers the same as they were before the latest changes or are they now more limited?