PLAAF Thread 15

By: benhongh - 31st January 2011 at 00:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

larger Z-19 pics

Fake

By: Rookh - 31st January 2011 at 01:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

14 here
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=98077

Why did you start a new thread when the mods haven't closed the previous one and is only half way through its lifespan of 1,000 posts? :confused:

By: plawolf - 31st January 2011 at 09:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

The Z19 looks like a heavily modified WZ9, which gave up its transport capacity in exchange for armour protection and possible better payload and/or range.

However, it is still not a purebread attack helo and will not be as capable as the WZ10 in pretty much any regard.

What it has going for it would be a lower purchase and operation cost because of the commonality with the Z9.

It would make a nice supplement to the WZ10 and can help fill the numbers but will never be a substitute for the WZ10.

By: plawolf - 31st January 2011 at 09:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Why did you start a new thread when the mods haven't closed the previous one and is only half way through its lifespan of 1,000 posts? :confused:

Because he is so desperate to get his name in the title. :rolleyes:

By: Rookh - 31st January 2011 at 09:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

since you are new here
no such thing as 1000 post life span. it is a 20 page life span.

My long tasty friend, since you've been here way too long, according to Grey Area from the PAF thread;

Given that the length of a thread in pages is actually dictated by the user setting for the number of posts to display on a page - this thread is only 17 pages long for me, for example - we prefer to use the limit of 1,000 postings.

At 661 posts, there's plenty of life in this thread yet. :)

GA

Hotdogs with an expired user date are not recommended :p

By: quadbike - 31st January 2011 at 10:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I think there is a misunderstanding between the moderators on the number of posts/pages in a thread rule.

GA I think looks at the number of posts when its over 1000 he closes the thread.

Arthur works by way of counting the pages once it hits 20 he tends to close them down.

frank mostly closes the old thread after a new one is started by hotdog.

By: frankvw - 31st January 2011 at 10:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Guys, it's either / or. 1000 posts or 20 pages, whichever comes first. We do this because otherwise, it tends to put some strain on the webserver, we had issues in the past. And, yes, if someone creates a new thread with reason (we don't always catch it in time, as this isn't automated), we'll close the previous one. So we perfectly understand each other. :)

By: Boom - 31st January 2011 at 11:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

which engine does the WZ-10 use ? any reliable sources available ?
specifications would be appreciated too.

By: Grey Area - 31st January 2011 at 16:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I think there is a misunderstanding between the moderators on the number of posts/pages in a thread rule.

GA I think looks at the number of posts when its over 1000 he closes the thread.

Arthur works by way of counting the pages once it hits 20 he tends to close them down.

frank mostly closes the old thread after a new one is started by hotdog.

See post #12.

Posts aren't always the same length. :)

By: Semi-Lobster - 31st January 2011 at 17:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

or based on what Huitong said.. WZ10 engine problems may have led to Z19 being developed as an alternative/rival.

besides they are WZ10 is CAIC, Z19 is HAIC

I've heard that theory to but its sort of hard to buy that given how much larger and heavier the WZ-10 compared to the WZ-19. The WZ-19 is almost certainly an armed reconnaissance helicopter rather than a rival to the WZ-10, it doesn't even have a chin mounted gun on the WZ-19.

By: DrPepper - 31st January 2011 at 18:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Fake

As J-20 implied, instead of simply saying "Fake" perhaps you could explain how you have reached that conclusion.

By: Privateer454 - 31st January 2011 at 19:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Well, at least it doesn't look like the photos are from "Top Gun"...(unlike some others)

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=5579526&c=ASI&s=AIR

By: Favine - 31st January 2011 at 19:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

It looks pretty sleek. but i would need to see more of it, to even think about what it could do. But still with the sell of one were do you think it would go to?

By: benhongh - 31st January 2011 at 22:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

As J-20 implied, instead of simply saying "Fake" perhaps you could explain how you have reached that conclusion.

Clearly investing into two very similar designs for very similar role(s) is a waste of resources.

By: Semi-Lobster - 1st February 2011 at 01:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Clearly investing into two very similar designs for very similar role(s) is a waste of resources.

There are three assumptions here benhongh that you may have failed to consider.

1. That having two 'similar' designs is a waste of resources. This is assuming that there are resources being invested into a single entity. The WZ-10 was designed in Changhe by the Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation and the WZ-19 is being developed by the Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation. Both companies are under AVIC but both compete with each other for contracts and investment. This is a competition, much like how there is competition between Chengdu and Shenyang and between Guizhou and Hongdu for contracts. AVIC is by far NOT a monolithic, top-bottom organization

2. That the designs are similar. This is assuming from the few pictures (or fakes as you call them) are of two helicopter designed to perform similar roles. Looking at the difference between the WZ-10 and WZ-19 it is clear that the WZ-19 is both smaller, lighter in weight and lighter in ordinance than the more heavy and heavily armed WZ-10. The WZ-19 even seems to lack a chin mounted cannon which is generally seen as a hallmark of a heavy attack helicopter. Given this apparent disparity in both size and weight between the two designs one can assume they have could have different roles in mind, such as one filling an armed reconnaissance role, similar to other helicopters in its weight class. While another helicopter is designed to fill a heavier CAS role.

3. The usage of investment resources. Theres also the possibility that helicopter may be a private venture. Many times Aircraft corporations in China have invested and developed aircraft themselves, without an official PLAAF tender or request for such aircraft. They are submitted privately to the PLAAF for evaluation or, designed for export. Two prime examples of this are the FC-1 which was designed primarily for export and funded internally by Chengdu. Another example is the L-15, Hongdu designed the aircraft without direct PLAAF involvement but rather, are submitting the L-15 themselves in the hopes of impressing the PLAAF top brass to gain a tender.

By: DrPepper - 1st February 2011 at 05:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Clearly investing into two very similar designs for very similar role(s) is a waste of resources.

edit: Semi-Lobster beat me to my point