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By: - 14th February 2011 at 16:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
X post Austin BRF
On the PAK FA AESA
By: - 14th February 2011 at 17:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Phazatron can't be happy about this, looks like NIIP has once again sealed the Flanker market.
By: - 14th February 2011 at 18:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Apologies, I actually thought the NIIP AESA entered flight-test last year :o
Last week Lenta.ru reported that the MKI upgrade would feature the Zhuk-AE, but I'm certain that was a journo error.
So it appears the MKI upgrade will feature a whole new radar with a new passive phased array (phase 1) and then get a new 'front-end' AESA (phase 2).
I'm surprised the AESA is going straight to T-50-03 & 04 without testing aboard a flying lab first- but good to hear there's been no major problems thus far.
By: - 14th February 2011 at 18:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I am guessing new PESA will be a modified (given center of gravity changes from Su-35--Su-30MKI) Irbis-E? Awesome.
By: - 14th February 2011 at 19:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Bars' Phase 1 upgrade details (by it's Chief Designer):
As an addenda to the article, I think Phase 1 will include the 'back-end' of the Irbis-E, with a new passive array, when they add the active array (phase 2) it will essentially be a PAK-FA radar (i.e. AESA + back-end of Irbis).
By: - 14th February 2011 at 19:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why don't they just do that AESA upgrade for Su-27SM and Su-35 for the RuAF too? Would be a tad bit better than PESA Irbis.
By: - 14th February 2011 at 19:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Vanilla Su-27 would be too much of a hassle to upgrade. The modifications necessary would not be worth the expense. Su-35 is due to arrive very very soon, the Flanker AESA won't realistically be available untill the first 48 batch is delivered.
By: - 14th February 2011 at 19:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Because the gimballed Irbis (passive) has very high performance- so no need.
SM would require major modification, probably new engines to handle output, there may be weight/cg issues- too many headaches.
With the MKI MLU the active array production achieves desirable economies of scale pre-PAK-FA IOC.
By: - 14th February 2011 at 22:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Third aircraft is probably to get ready early next year. The forth prototype can be the production ready version if everything goes ok..:) and the fifth one should be fully operational :D
By: - 14th February 2011 at 23:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What hassle exactly?
The Su-27SM already has a superior engine to the Su-30MKI, so power output should be even less of an issue.
Radome design - it's the same size?!
The avionics bus should be compatible with most new radars on the Su-27SM, no?
By: - 15th February 2011 at 00:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Because SM is just a cheap modernization of legacy Flankers. May be the SM2, if some day becomes a reality, will include the change of the "stoneage" N001 by the Irbis.
By: - 15th February 2011 at 02:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I am guessing new PESA will be a modified (given center of gravity changes from Su-35--Su-30MKI) Irbis-E? Awesome.
30MKIs without engine upgrade are no way to be equiped with AESA,
Power output of 31F series just can not match the overall electricity consuption of new avionics with AESA radars.
By: - 15th February 2011 at 02:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What hassle exactly?The Su-27SM already has a superior engine to the Su-30MKI, so power output should be even less of an issue.
Radome design - it's the same size?!
The avionics bus should be compatible with most new radars on the Su-27SM, no?
Definitely. 99M1 with FADEC should cause some changes of avionics.
and the derivative of N001 radars has been modified to be multifunctional, capable of target aquisition from ground, sea as well as air.
More power output and changes of avionic bus counld be potential for future powerful radar upgrade.
By: - 15th February 2011 at 02:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
30MKIs without engine upgrade are no way to be equiped with AESA,Power output of 31F series just can not match the overall electricity consuption of new avionics with AESA radars.
That maybe so ( I am not too well acquainted with the power needs), but I think its rather likely they will opt for more powerful engines at some point this decade, at the least on the level of Al-31FM-1.
By: - 15th February 2011 at 02:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Because the gimballed Irbis (passive) has very high performance- so no need.
SM would require major modification, probably new engines to handle output, there may be weight/cg issues- too many headaches.With the MKI MLU the active array production achieves desirable economies of scale pre-PAK-FA IOC.
the Super 30 program with procurement of additional 44 30MKI and especailly comprehensive ongoing upgrade of existing 2 30MKI samples in Irukt should be considered of 30MKI MLU?
By: - 15th February 2011 at 02:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Third aircraft is probably to get ready early next year. The forth prototype can be the production ready version if everything goes ok..:) and the fifth one should be fully operational :D
Since the edition of Take-off Mag. is published in Feb., The definition of " early next year" seems to be a little bit unclear.
According Pogosan's statement on Aero india 2011, the third prototype should be risen into air in 2011.
By: - 15th February 2011 at 04:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
X post Austin BRFOn the PAK FA AESA
Very informative.
Thanks
By: - 15th February 2011 at 05:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
30MKIs without engine upgrade are no way to be equiped with AESA,Power output of 31F series just can not match the overall electricity consuption of new avionics with AESA radars.
The SM and MKI would also need this new APU for additional power supply.
Its installed on both the Su-34 and Su-35S
By: - 15th February 2011 at 06:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
But the inlet is completely straight as opposed to the PAK-FA, whose curvature means those ´russian doll´ channels block LoS. In other words, concentric channels like that need LESS inlet curvature to result in the same LoS blockage as a larger, but unblocked, S-curve intake like F-22, but they still need some curvature. ...Or at least that´s my take on it. ;)just part is shown - blocker lenght rougly equals its diameter and not a mirror copy of this sectionAny reason why the same/similar blocker couldn't be applied to the Su-35? The engines are similar...
By: - 15th February 2011 at 06:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm surprised the AESA is going straight to T-50-03 & 04 without testing aboard a flying lab first- but good to hear there's been no major problems thus far.
Radars for the Su-34 and Su-35 were tested on the flying labs on Tu-134 base. There is no reasons to believe that new AESA will not be tested in the f/l too.
Third aircraft is probably to get ready early next year. The forth prototype can be the production ready version if everything goes ok.. and the fifth one should be fully operational
No, T-50-2, 3 and(probably) 4 will enter to flight tests in this year.
Why don't they just do that AESA upgrade for Su-27SM
Because all of the Su-27's is very old and their life at the end, it makes no sense to upgrade.
and Su-35
Because the development of AESA is not yet complete, but PESA is ready.
Would be a tad bit better than PESA Irbis.
Irbis is most powerful radar in the world after AN/APG-77. Target detection range about 400 km. If the new AESA is more powerful, it is not much (including the obvious advantages of AESA)
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By: Grey Area - 14th February 2011 at 15:41
The previous thread is here.