By: Italy
- 6th September 2012 at 19:00Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
C103은 현재 LIG Nex1에서 개발중인 한국형 AESA(Active Electronically Scanned Array) 레이더가 탑재되며, 시제기 완성 후 차후 개량을 거쳐 동체 중앙에 AMRAAM(Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile)급 중거리 공대공 미사일 4발 또는 중거리 공대공 미사일 2발과 1,000 파운드급 JDAM(Joint Direct Attack Munition)을 탑재할 수 있는 IWB(Internal Weapon Bay)를 가질 예정이다.
KF-X C103 is planned to have a Korean AESA being developed by LIG Nex 1 and after the prototype is finished it will have Internal Weapons Bays carrying 4 AMRAAM class medium range air to air missiles or 2 medium range air to air missles and 2 1000 pound JDAMs.
no sir, the model does not seem to have room for a bay if the size of those missiles are correct. especially with those semi-recessed missiles in the way.
no wonder Turkey left the project.
By: Freehand
- 6th September 2012 at 21:42Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Race to the bottom?
I think, in design implementation, there comes a point where a common set of criteria will produce a common result. Requirements like stealth, high-speed, and enhanced situational awareness (i.e. good visibility) will bring everyone to the same conclusions. Throw in the "if it works for them, it will work for us" principle and very liberal practices around research gathering, some similarity is almost a given.
By: EagleSpirit
- 6th September 2012 at 22:42Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
no sir, the model does not seem to have room for a bay if the size of those missiles are correct. especially with those semi-recessed missiles in the way.
no wonder Turkey left the project.
Those missiles would be pretty bad if you know...they didn't detach.
By: ananda
- 7th September 2012 at 03:21Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
no sir, the model does not seem to have room for a bay if the size of those missiles are correct. especially with those semi-recessed missiles in the way.
no wonder Turkey left the project.
Conformal weapons bay still possible. Turkey wants equal status with South Korea (thus ownership position of 40% ROK, 40% Turkey and 20% Indonesia). While ROK wants to keep Senior Partner status with 2 Junior Partner (60% ROK, 20% Indonesia and 20% Turkey). That's the biggest contentious problem that made Turkey has not signed in with the project.
ROK wants the Senior Partner status (with one of the reasons) so they can speed up and maintain the design and development stages in order to keep up with the Time Frame of 2020 operational. Indonesia did not mind with Junior Status and followed with Korean agenda since for Indonesia it's a learning curve (kind of what Brazil did when join AMX program).
By: Bager1968
- 7th September 2012 at 10:55Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There are 1980s era wind tunnel models of British ASTOVL designs that look like the F22, but were nothing to do with Lockheed.
There are no more unique designs it seems:eek:
As was said about the F-15's overall similarity to the MiG-15 in configuration... and the intake similarity between A-5 Vigilante, MiG-25, F-14, F-14, MiG-29, SU-27, etc... similar performance requirements + laws of physics = similar shapes.
New
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan
- 7th September 2012 at 14:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
no sir, the model does not seem to have room for a bay if the size of those missiles are correct.
You are right.
The model in the picture is said to be an old one hanging out at the KFX research center for public reception. The current one, which is yet to be unveiled, is said to be longer than the F-35.
The sources explicitly confirm an internal weapons bay as in F-22 and F-35, not a CWB or a weapons pod.
no wonder Turkey left the project.
The KFX was too large for Turkey's liking. Turkey's had something small in mind, Gripen sized.
By: EagleSpirit
- 7th September 2012 at 15:11Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You are right.
The model in the picture is said to be an old one hanging out at the KFX research center for public reception. The current one, which is yet to be unveiled, is said to be longer than the F-35.
The sources explicitly confirm an internal weapons bay as in F-22 and F-35, not a CWB or a weapons pod.
The KFX was too large for Turkey's liking. Turkey's had something small in mind, Gripen sized.
Any bets on how long he lasts before getting banned?
New
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan
- 7th September 2012 at 15:24Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Any bets on how long he lasts before getting banned?
Is this forum infested by Chinese mods? Then sure, I probably wouldn't last a week.
If not, I will be around as non-Chinese mods don't have any problem with me.
By: mrmalaya
- 7th September 2012 at 16:16Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
oooh how exciting. More drama.
I personally haven't seen anything objectionable yet though.
What is the in service date for this aircraft?
Accepting that this is a national industrial project rather than an attempt to lead the way in fighter technology, it looks like it could be successful.
New
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan
- 7th September 2012 at 16:44Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What is the in service date for this aircraft?
2021 for Block 1(The one with external armament, no radio signal emission control, no LPI mode for the AESA radar, etc).
Unknown for Block 2(Full stealth with an internal weapons bay), but somewhere after 200th Block 1 is produced.
By: Italy
- 7th September 2012 at 18:23Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
that is the old models C101 and C102, this is the newest one C103.
no room for a bay with that config and external pod
re uploading the pics of C103
New
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan
- 7th September 2012 at 18:28Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
that is the old models C101 and C102, this is the newest one C103.
Two separate and reputable sources confirm single YF-23 style internal weapons bay placed between the cockpit and the intake. The picture is just an early model, the real one was not allowed to be photographed but said to be about the size of a Super Hornet powered by two EJ2X0 engines. Imagine a lower-drag(This is not a naval jet so they don't need as much low-speed lift) stealth shaped Super Hornet and you will get the picture.
Seems that they are trying to minimize American content in the KFX due to the opposition from the US aerospace industry lobby, namely Lockheed Martin.
At the press conference held in Seoul earlier today, EADS CASA and Boeing reps voiced their willingness to join the KFX program, but Lockheed Martin refuses to.
Posts: 2,114
By: mack8 - 6th September 2012 at 15:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So KFX is made with Lockheed then? Judging by the intakes ( F-22-ish) does it means they go for M2 performance?
Posts: 171
By: EagleSpirit - 6th September 2012 at 15:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
F-X3 hasn't been decided so no foreign help other than Indonesia.
Posts: 4,619
By: mrmalaya - 6th September 2012 at 16:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There are 1980s era wind tunnel models of British ASTOVL designs that look like the F22, but were nothing to do with Lockheed.
There are no more unique designs it seems:eek:
Posts: 445
By: Italy - 6th September 2012 at 19:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
no sir, the model does not seem to have room for a bay if the size of those missiles are correct. especially with those semi-recessed missiles in the way.
no wonder Turkey left the project.
Posts: 980
By: Freehand - 6th September 2012 at 21:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Race to the bottom?
I think, in design implementation, there comes a point where a common set of criteria will produce a common result. Requirements like stealth, high-speed, and enhanced situational awareness (i.e. good visibility) will bring everyone to the same conclusions. Throw in the "if it works for them, it will work for us" principle and very liberal practices around research gathering, some similarity is almost a given.
Just a thought...
Posts: 171
By: EagleSpirit - 6th September 2012 at 22:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Those missiles would be pretty bad if you know...they didn't detach.
Posts: 506
By: ananda - 7th September 2012 at 03:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Conformal weapons bay still possible. Turkey wants equal status with South Korea (thus ownership position of 40% ROK, 40% Turkey and 20% Indonesia). While ROK wants to keep Senior Partner status with 2 Junior Partner (60% ROK, 20% Indonesia and 20% Turkey). That's the biggest contentious problem that made Turkey has not signed in with the project.
ROK wants the Senior Partner status (with one of the reasons) so they can speed up and maintain the design and development stages in order to keep up with the Time Frame of 2020 operational. Indonesia did not mind with Junior Status and followed with Korean agenda since for Indonesia it's a learning curve (kind of what Brazil did when join AMX program).
Posts: 224
By: Coach - 7th September 2012 at 08:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In other forums (e.g. Secret Projects, here) models and CAD-screenshots clearly show internal weapon bays.
Posts: 506
By: ananda - 7th September 2012 at 09:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That's not official design from CRDC. What KDN sites reveal seems the design being choosen by CRDC for KFX which they called design #C-103.
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 7th September 2012 at 10:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As was said about the F-15's overall similarity to the MiG-15 in configuration... and the intake similarity between A-5 Vigilante, MiG-25, F-14, F-14, MiG-29, SU-27, etc... similar performance requirements + laws of physics = similar shapes.
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan - 7th September 2012 at 14:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You are right.
The model in the picture is said to be an old one hanging out at the KFX research center for public reception. The current one, which is yet to be unveiled, is said to be longer than the F-35.
The sources explicitly confirm an internal weapons bay as in F-22 and F-35, not a CWB or a weapons pod.
The KFX was too large for Turkey's liking. Turkey's had something small in mind, Gripen sized.
Posts: 171
By: EagleSpirit - 7th September 2012 at 15:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Any bets on how long he lasts before getting banned?Posts: 578
By: SlowMan - 7th September 2012 at 15:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is this forum infested by Chinese mods? Then sure, I probably wouldn't last a week.
If not, I will be around as non-Chinese mods don't have any problem with me.
Posts: 171
By: EagleSpirit - 7th September 2012 at 15:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Considering your track record I doubt it.
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan - 7th September 2012 at 15:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Keep doubting then.
Posts: 4,619
By: mrmalaya - 7th September 2012 at 16:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
oooh how exciting. More drama.
I personally haven't seen anything objectionable yet though.
What is the in service date for this aircraft?
Accepting that this is a national industrial project rather than an attempt to lead the way in fighter technology, it looks like it could be successful.
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan - 7th September 2012 at 16:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
2021 for Block 1(The one with external armament, no radio signal emission control, no LPI mode for the AESA radar, etc).
Unknown for Block 2(Full stealth with an internal weapons bay), but somewhere after 200th Block 1 is produced.
Posts: 445
By: Italy - 7th September 2012 at 18:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
that is the old models C101 and C102, this is the newest one C103.
no room for a bay with that config and external pod
Posts: 445
By: Italy - 7th September 2012 at 18:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
re uploading the pics of C103
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan - 7th September 2012 at 18:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Two separate and reputable sources confirm single YF-23 style internal weapons bay placed between the cockpit and the intake. The picture is just an early model, the real one was not allowed to be photographed but said to be about the size of a Super Hornet powered by two EJ2X0 engines. Imagine a lower-drag(This is not a naval jet so they don't need as much low-speed lift) stealth shaped Super Hornet and you will get the picture.
Seems that they are trying to minimize American content in the KFX due to the opposition from the US aerospace industry lobby, namely Lockheed Martin.
At the press conference held in Seoul earlier today, EADS CASA and Boeing reps voiced their willingness to join the KFX program, but Lockheed Martin refuses to.