By: ocay84
- 9th June 2012 at 17:25Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Recent news from Turkey states that Swedish SAAB has chosen to support TAI's future Turkish future F-X/T-X fighter-Trainer aircraft conceptual design phase.
Do you think future Swedish FS2025 and Turkish F-X can be unite as a single common programme?
New
Posts: 6,983
By: obligatory
- 9th June 2012 at 19:05Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No.
A fighter/trainer sounds more like a light-attack/trainer to me,
i.e not the highest performance obtainable known to man.
Any future fighter by SAAB for SwAF would be a stealth fighter and
a step in the wrong direction with regard to operational cost,
and totally wrong for a trainer.
That is not to say that SAAB wouldn't be interested in work with other countries
with other performance goal, and they would be suitable to work on this project,
with their experience on reducing cost.
By: Snow Monkey
- 9th June 2012 at 21:44Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Recent news from Turkey states that Swedish SAAB has chosen to support TAI's future Turkish future F-X/T-X fighter-Trainer aircraft conceptual design phase.
What does this actually mean? If it were the other way around, namely Turkey choosing SAAB to be involved in F-X design, that is a concrete development. Saab choosing what... that they want to be chosen by Turkey?
New
Posts: 242
By: raptor2019
- 10th June 2012 at 01:26Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
By: Bager1968
- 10th June 2012 at 05:57Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No.
A fighter/trainer sounds more like a light-attack/trainer to me,
i.e not the highest performance obtainable known to man.
Any future fighter by SAAB for SwAF would be a stealth fighter and
a step in the wrong direction with regard to operational cost,
and totally wrong for a trainer.
That is not to say that SAAB wouldn't be interested in work with other countries
with other performance goal, and they would be suitable to work on this project,
with their experience on reducing cost.
1960s example: T-38/F-5. OK, the F-5A was a ground-attack bird, but the 1972 F-5E was a true air-air fighter (if a bit on the low end of the scale).
For a 1980s example picture the F-16B configured like the F-16/79 (with reduced avionics) as a high-end T-38 replacement trainer... or a 2-seat version of the F-20 with a non-afterburning F404 and reduced avionics.
Given that a modern fighter sees over half (more like 2/3) of its cost in its avionics and mission systems, using the same airframe but stuffing different innards is still a viable cost-reduction method... especially if the airframe is designed so that a high-performance fighter engine can go in the "F" models and a cheaper, lower-performance engine go in the "T" models.
A modern version could be the Tejas in a 2-seat version with the F404 engine of the prototypes and reduced avionics instead of the F414 and top-line avionics of the production versions.
New
Posts: 6,983
By: obligatory
- 10th June 2012 at 06:20Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
By: mack8
- 10th June 2012 at 20:19Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Don't know if completely accurate , but i'm sure i just read somewhere that at the moment they are not based in Britain , instead the ETPS pilots go to Sweden to fly them.:confused:
By: Dazza
- 11th June 2012 at 00:11Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
the Empire Test Pilot's School's twin seat Gripen is based in Britain.
Nope, the ETPS Gripen is/was based at Saab's facility at Linkoping, ETPS students fly it, and other Gripens, from there.
-Daz
New
Posts: 242
By: raptor2019
- 13th June 2012 at 01:06Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thailand Buying JAS-39 Gripens and Saab S340 Erieye AEW&AWACS
In Phase 2, the RTAF intends to procure an additional 6 Gripen fighters together with associated equipment, spare parts and training, and a 2nd Saab S340 Erieye AEW system aircraft, for about $500 million over a 5-year budgetary commitment from 2013-2017. A budget squeeze ended up delaying this option, but it’s moving forward with a contract. All Phase 2 aircraft deliveries are scheduled to finish in 2013.
By: swerve
- 13th June 2012 at 09:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What year is this news from? 2010?
Ah yes: the contract was signed on 23rd November 2010, & reported at the time.
Raptor219, why are you doing this? The only recent news is a claim by a Thai newspaper that deliveries of the second batch of Gripens is being held up by a US supplier refusing to sell certain components.
By: Sign
- 13th June 2012 at 17:35Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
there are some speculations about 6 more gripens to a total of 18 gripens.
Maybe something about that, that has surfaced, not wrongdoing by raptor219. we have to what an see if better sources reports...
By: Bager1968
- 14th June 2012 at 00:48Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No, what he's posted is a direct quotation from a report 18 months ago.
Source: 12 June 2012 - defenseindustrydaily News
to me it seems to b some confusions in the dating..
Raptor2019 has a habit of posting old news articles.
Lately he has been removing dates and links on purpose to hide how ancient those articles are.
Actually, he put the link in the picture of the Gripen & S340... just click on the picture.
The article is not an old one, since it relates in the past tense events from 2011...
Thailand’s Phase 1 system was originally supposed to become fully operational around September 2011, but it reached that milestone 2 months early, in July 2011. A lot of activity goes into an achievement like that, and the timeline was as follows:
2009: 4 Thai pilots and 20 technicians enter training by the Swedish Armed forces.
June 2010: A 2nd set of 10 more techbnicians head to Sweden for training.
Dec. 2010: 1 S340 ERIEYE AEW and 1 Saab 340 rtransport are delivered, on time.
Feb. 2011: All 6 JAS-39 C/D fighters arrive in Thailand. 6 RTAF F-16 pilots go to Sweden for a 4-month conversion course.
Mar. 2011: One Command and Control C2 system, including equipment for 3 ground based Radio sites is delivered.
June 2011: 10 technicians return from a year of training in Sweden. 6 pilots return from conversion course.
July 2011: Phase 1 system declared operational.
In Phase 2, the RTAF intends to procure an additional 6 Gripen fighters together with associated equipment, spare parts and training, and a 2nd Saab S340 Erieye AEW system aircraft, for about $500 million over a 5-year budgetary commitment from 2013-2017. A budget squeeze ended up delaying this option, but it’s moving forward with a contract. All Phase 2 aircraft deliveries are scheduled to finish in 2013.
Sweden has offered the Gripen fighters with a 2-year maintenance and spare parts support package. As is frequently the case, Saab’s deal includes industrial offsets and benefits involving Saab investment, and Thai-Swedish industrial, science & technology co-operation, technology transfer, and investment co-operation.
Source: 12 June 2012 - defenseindustrydaily News
So this article IS a new one, and specifically says that the contract negotiations for the second batch of aircraft "are moving forward"!
Posts: 178
By: ocay84 - 9th June 2012 at 17:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Recent news from Turkey states that Swedish SAAB has chosen to support TAI's future Turkish future F-X/T-X fighter-Trainer aircraft conceptual design phase.
Do you think future Swedish FS2025 and Turkish F-X can be unite as a single common programme?
Posts: 6,983
By: obligatory - 9th June 2012 at 19:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No.
A fighter/trainer sounds more like a light-attack/trainer to me,
i.e not the highest performance obtainable known to man.
Any future fighter by SAAB for SwAF would be a stealth fighter and
a step in the wrong direction with regard to operational cost,
and totally wrong for a trainer.
That is not to say that SAAB wouldn't be interested in work with other countries
with other performance goal, and they would be suitable to work on this project,
with their experience on reducing cost.
Posts: 178
By: ocay84 - 9th June 2012 at 20:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Actually Turkish Project is not fighter-trainer. Those are 2 seperate programme.
F-X: air-air oriented fighter; will be used with F16 and F35
T-X: T38 replacement AJT
concept definition will be finalised at teh end of 2013. I think we will see how will them look like..
F-X will be stealth medium class fighter; which planend first flight in 2023.
Posts: 840
By: Snow Monkey - 9th June 2012 at 21:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What does this actually mean? If it were the other way around, namely Turkey choosing SAAB to be involved in F-X design, that is a concrete development. Saab choosing what... that they want to be chosen by Turkey?Posts: 242
By: raptor2019 - 10th June 2012 at 01:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
JAS-39 Gripens from Six Nations Fly Together
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 10th June 2012 at 05:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
1960s example: T-38/F-5. OK, the F-5A was a ground-attack bird, but the 1972 F-5E was a true air-air fighter (if a bit on the low end of the scale).
For a 1980s example picture the F-16B configured like the F-16/79 (with reduced avionics) as a high-end T-38 replacement trainer... or a 2-seat version of the F-20 with a non-afterburning F404 and reduced avionics.
Given that a modern fighter sees over half (more like 2/3) of its cost in its avionics and mission systems, using the same airframe but stuffing different innards is still a viable cost-reduction method... especially if the airframe is designed so that a high-performance fighter engine can go in the "F" models and a cheaper, lower-performance engine go in the "T" models.
A modern version could be the Tejas in a 2-seat version with the F404 engine of the prototypes and reduced avionics instead of the F414 and top-line avionics of the production versions.
Posts: 6,983
By: obligatory - 10th June 2012 at 06:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You may be right about that.
What is even better is the following:
"The 'enhanced durability engine' becomes the 'enhanced performance engine' when you put the fan on it," Gower said.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeings-super-hornet-seeks-export-sale-to-launch-20-thrust-326376/
This is rather intriguing, as you can use the EDE in peacetime and keep the EPE fan in storage
Posts: 14
By: aim1 - 10th June 2012 at 16:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There is only 5 nations on the pic. 2 of the planes are swedish!
Posts: 3,337
By: BlackArcher - 10th June 2012 at 19:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nope..there is just 1 Flygvapnet Gripen in that picture..the Empire Test Pilot's School's twin seat Gripen is based in Britain.
Posts: 2,114
By: mack8 - 10th June 2012 at 20:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Don't know if completely accurate , but i'm sure i just read somewhere that at the moment they are not based in Britain , instead the ETPS pilots go to Sweden to fly them.:confused:
Posts: 4,619
By: mrmalaya - 10th June 2012 at 20:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I read that too.
Posts: 357
By: tiddles - 11th June 2012 at 00:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
FWIW I have also read it somewhere but cant remember where .Whoops there is a bit in this SAAB blurb
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saabgroup.com%2Fen%2FAir%2FGripen-Fighter-System%2FGripen-for-ETPS%2FGripen-in-operation%2F&ei=jSnVT9XSDMSTiQfjiLyDAw&usg=AFQjCNEM01rAZAFLBzBJ9fZRFk8pVRDEXw&sig2=5PgBazvaeQyKgT06NyXIGg
Tiddles
Posts: 1,407
By: Dazza - 11th June 2012 at 00:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nope, the ETPS Gripen is/was based at Saab's facility at Linkoping, ETPS students fly it, and other Gripens, from there.
-Daz
Posts: 242
By: raptor2019 - 13th June 2012 at 01:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thailand Buying JAS-39 Gripens and Saab S340 Erieye AEW&AWACS
In Phase 2, the RTAF intends to procure an additional 6 Gripen fighters together with associated equipment, spare parts and training, and a 2nd Saab S340 Erieye AEW system aircraft, for about $500 million over a 5-year budgetary commitment from 2013-2017. A budget squeeze ended up delaying this option, but it’s moving forward with a contract. All Phase 2 aircraft deliveries are scheduled to finish in 2013.
Posts: 13,432
By: swerve - 13th June 2012 at 09:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What year is this news from? 2010?
Ah yes: the contract was signed on 23rd November 2010, & reported at the time.
Raptor219, why are you doing this? The only recent news is a claim by a Thai newspaper that deliveries of the second batch of Gripens is being held up by a US supplier refusing to sell certain components.
Posts: 1,577
By: Sign - 13th June 2012 at 17:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
there are some speculations about 6 more gripens to a total of 18 gripens.
Maybe something about that, that has surfaced, not wrongdoing by raptor219. we have to what an see if better sources reports...
Posts: 13,432
By: swerve - 13th June 2012 at 18:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No, what he's posted is a direct quotation from a report 18 months ago.
Posts: 1,577
By: Sign - 13th June 2012 at 19:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
to me it seems to b some confusions in the dating..
Posts: 378
By: CoffeeBean - 13th June 2012 at 23:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Raptor2019 has a habit of posting old news articles.
Lately he has been removing dates and links on purpose to hide how ancient those articles are.
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 14th June 2012 at 00:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Actually, he put the link in the picture of the Gripen & S340... just click on the picture.
The article is not an old one, since it relates in the past tense events from 2011...
So this article IS a new one, and specifically says that the contract negotiations for the second batch of aircraft "are moving forward"!