PEB, I have never seen any evidence of that roundel. I think it's a misinterpretation of photographic evidence. From afar, it can appear that the star in the center of the small roundel with the same colors is only a yellow disc.
By: PEB75
- 8th April 2019 at 11:58Permalink- Edited 2nd October 2019 at 14:50
Soviet roundels
This roundel is sometimes depicted as the early Red navy marking. Honestly, I don't know if it was official, semi-official, or just a variation adopted by one pilot. Any information?
By: Gerard
- 8th April 2019 at 12:15Permalink- Edited 2nd October 2019 at 14:50
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","data-attachmentid":3858952}[/ATTACH][ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","data-attachmentid":3858953}[/ATTACH]
never seen the all red roundel, only these, the red white blue ones
By: PEB75
- 16th April 2019 at 11:46Permalink- Edited 2nd October 2019 at 14:50
Peruvian variant
Hello,
Here's a variant of the Peruvian roundel. It is based on the attached drawing. Has anybody ever seen a photograph of this aircraft? I have seen only one photograph of a Peruvian P-36, and it wears the standard roundel.
By: Gerard
- 20th April 2019 at 16:45Permalink- Edited 2nd October 2019 at 14:50
June 28, 1940. Private of the Italian Air Force paints small French Air Force roundel on the Italian AF roundel on the bomber's wing, when it was based on some airfield in the Italian Western Front during the Italian invasion of France. The FIAT BR20 "Cicogna" and the Savoia - Marchetti SM79 "Sparviero" bombers were based on this airfield then
.
By: PEB75
- 21st April 2019 at 09:02Permalink- Edited 2nd October 2019 at 14:50
Spanish Navy 1920s roundel
Hi gentlemen,
Perhaps do you remember that we discussed last December about seemingly one-color roundels (red?) for a Spanish Blackburn Velos photographed in 1929 (see page 64 of this thread).
I have found new pictures of 1920's Spanish seaplanes (Dornier Wal). By the way, they are related to a fact I wasn't aware of: before becoming a dictator, General Franco was an aviator who performed transatlantic raids in the 1920s. Some successed (1926 one to Argentina), some failed...
In 1929, Franco plane crashed-landed in the sea near the Azores and after more than a week of search, HMS Eagle managed to fin the seaplane and recued all four crew members alive. Here are pictures of the rescue:
The Dornier Wal seaplane wears roundels in 8 positions: up and down each wing, tail and front hull (both sides). All roundels seem unicolor… except on the last picture, where the hull roundel is clearly the Spanish tricolor one!!! On the other hand, on all pictures the wing roundels seem unicolor (black? red?), even on the last picture where the film seems able to capture the contrast!
Here are pictures of other Spanish Dornier in the 1920s:
Conclusions are clear: Spanish navy aircraft in the 1920s sported the reicolor roundel!!! And another conlusion: as pointed by gkozak in December last year, beware the B&W photographic evidences…:eagerness:
Obviously, these conclusions shall be the same for the Blackburn Velos aircraft.
By: Gerard
- 28th April 2019 at 22:25Permalink- Edited 30th April 2019 at 10:59
the white star roundel of the US
[ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tcurtis jenny jn4. 1917.png Views:\t44 Size:\t1.57 MB ID:\t3860760","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"3860760","data-size":"full"}[/ATTACH]
.
Used for a very short time and most likely only in Tennessee. ca. 1916 1917. I got confirmation that they really used these during a visit to the museum at Ft Rucker.
Posts: 1,159
By: gkozak - 1st April 2019 at 23:45 Permalink
PEB, I have never seen any evidence of that roundel. I think it's a misinterpretation of photographic evidence. From afar, it can appear that the star in the center of the small roundel with the same colors is only a yellow disc.
Posts: 25,376
By: Tango III - 3rd April 2019 at 20:03 Permalink
Posts: 139
By: PEB75 - 5th April 2019 at 18:02 Permalink
@Tango III: Nice picture of the Lao C-47!! Do you know when it was taken?
@gkozak: yes, might be…
Posts: 25,376
By: Tango III - 6th April 2019 at 10:28 Permalink
Sorry I do not have details. The picture I found on the net but there is a video on Youtube in the last minute showing the same picture.
Posts: 3,094
By: Gerard - 8th April 2019 at 09:25 Permalink
It must have been about the same time as this picture
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","data-attachmentid":3858935}[/ATTACH]
Posts: 139
By: PEB75 - 8th April 2019 at 09:42 Permalink
:eagerness:
Well done Gerard. Notice the roman font (Royal Lao Air Force on the left side (first pic) and the Lao font on the right side (second pic).
Posts: 139
By: PEB75 - 8th April 2019 at 09:45 Permalink
During the Silesia uprisings in 1921, Polish Breguet XIV supposedly used blue/white squares roundels like shown on this profile:
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"Sans titre.png","data-attachmentid":3858938}[/ATTACH]
Couldn't confirm with a photograph, though...:(
Posts: 139
By: PEB75 - 8th April 2019 at 11:58 Permalink - Edited 2nd October 2019 at 14:50
Soviet roundels
This roundel is sometimes depicted as the early Red navy marking. Honestly, I don't know if it was official, semi-official, or just a variation adopted by one pilot. Any information?
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"149","title":"80.g Russie.png","width":"150","data-attachmentid":3858949}[/ATTACH]
Also, I am looking for photographs of aircraft carrying this specific variant of the so-called Kremlin star roundel:
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"152","title":"80.y URSS.png","width":"160","data-attachmentid":3858950}[/ATTACH]
Posts: 3,094
By: Gerard - 8th April 2019 at 12:15 Permalink - Edited 2nd October 2019 at 14:50
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","data-attachmentid":3858952}[/ATTACH][ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","data-attachmentid":3858953}[/ATTACH]
never seen the all red roundel, only these, the red white blue ones
Posts: 139
By: PEB75 - 8th April 2019 at 18:00 Permalink
Well, on the top pictures it looks like the fuselage roundel is all the same color, while the one on the fin is bicolor…
Posts: 139
By: PEB75 - 8th April 2019 at 18:05 Permalink
By the way the top aircraft is a Nieuport of some kind (17 or so), but what aircraft is the bottom one??
Posts: 685
By: cthornburg - 8th April 2019 at 19:02 Permalink
Lebedev 12
Chris
Posts: 139
By: PEB75 - 8th April 2019 at 20:15 Permalink
:eagerness:
Thanks Chris!
Posts: 139
By: PEB75 - 16th April 2019 at 11:46 Permalink - Edited 2nd October 2019 at 14:50
Peruvian variant
Hello,
Here's a variant of the Peruvian roundel. It is based on the attached drawing. Has anybody ever seen a photograph of this aircraft? I have seen only one photograph of a Peruvian P-36, and it wears the standard roundel.
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"150","title":"72.p P\u00e9rou.png","width":"150","data-attachmentid":3859846}[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"152","title":"42_1.jpg","width":"500","data-attachmentid":3859847}[/ATTACH]
Posts: 3,094
By: Gerard - 20th April 2019 at 16:45 Permalink - Edited 2nd October 2019 at 14:50
Posts: 139
By: PEB75 - 21st April 2019 at 07:21 Permalink
:eagerness:
Posts: 139
By: PEB75 - 21st April 2019 at 09:02 Permalink - Edited 2nd October 2019 at 14:50
Spanish Navy 1920s roundel
Hi gentlemen,
Perhaps do you remember that we discussed last December about seemingly one-color roundels (red?) for a Spanish Blackburn Velos photographed in 1929 (see page 64 of this thread).
I have found new pictures of 1920's Spanish seaplanes (Dornier Wal). By the way, they are related to a fact I wasn't aware of: before becoming a dictator, General Franco was an aviator who performed transatlantic raids in the 1920s. Some successed (1926 one to Argentina), some failed...
In 1929, Franco plane crashed-landed in the sea near the Azores and after more than a week of search, HMS Eagle managed to fin the seaplane and recued all four crew members alive. Here are pictures of the rescue:
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"Espagne - Dornier Wal M-MWAP 1929 (de\u0301tail).jpg","data-attachmentid":3860234}[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"large","data-attachmentid":3860235}[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"large","data-attachmentid":3860236}[/ATTACH][ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"large","data-attachmentid":3860237}[/ATTACH][ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"large","data-attachmentid":3860238}[/ATTACH]
The Dornier Wal seaplane wears roundels in 8 positions: up and down each wing, tail and front hull (both sides). All roundels seem unicolor… except on the last picture, where the hull roundel is clearly the Spanish tricolor one!!! On the other hand, on all pictures the wing roundels seem unicolor (black? red?), even on the last picture where the film seems able to capture the contrast!
Here are pictures of other Spanish Dornier in the 1920s:
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"large","data-attachmentid":3860239}[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"Espagne - Dornier Wal M-MWAL.jpg","data-attachmentid":3860240}[/ATTACH]
There is no doubt the hull roundel is the Spanish tricolor one. As for the wing ones…:confused:
Searching a little more, I found two more pictures of the M-MWAL, including one during its arrival in Buenos Aires:
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"455","title":"Espagne - Dornier Wal M-MWAL 1926.jpg","width":"600","data-attachmentid":3860242}[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"383","title":"Espagne - Dornier Wal M-MWAL 1926 arriving.jpg","width":"600","data-attachmentid":3860243}[/ATTACH]
The Madrid museum depicts the last plane as such:
[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"large","data-attachmentid":3860241}[/ATTACH]
Tricolor roundels in 6 positions…
Conclusions are clear: Spanish navy aircraft in the 1920s sported the reicolor roundel!!! And another conlusion: as pointed by gkozak in December last year, beware the B&W photographic evidences…:eagerness:
Obviously, these conclusions shall be the same for the Blackburn Velos aircraft.
Regards,
PEB
Posts: 949
By: roberto_yeager - 21st April 2019 at 18:51 Permalink
He wasn't Francisco Franco (the later dictator), he was his brother, Ramon Franco: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram%C3%B3n_Franco
1Saludo
Posts: 139
By: PEB75 - 22nd April 2019 at 11:53 Permalink
You're correct, thanks for the correction!
Posts: 3,094
By: Gerard - 28th April 2019 at 22:25 Permalink - Edited 30th April 2019 at 10:59
the white star roundel of the US
[ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tcurtis jenny jn4. 1917.png Views:\t44 Size:\t1.57 MB ID:\t3860760","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"3860760","data-size":"full"}[/ATTACH]
.
Used for a very short time and most likely only in Tennessee. ca. 1916 1917. I got confirmation that they really used these during a visit to the museum at Ft Rucker.