Choice of western fighters soon to narrow?

Member for

11 years 3 months

Posts: 2,595

It looks like the number of western fighters available to air forces is going to shrink soon. F/A-18 inc Growler Boeing is reported to be in a position where it needs to order long lead components in the next month to assure continued production. There are, however, no orders to cover these long lead items. Boeing is already working on reducing the production rate to buy more time for possible extra US orders. So... will US politicians take up the cause urgently by rushing through a decision to order some more aircraft? If they don't prospects for orders from Malaysia and Denmark look bleak.
The St. Louis production line for Boeing's F/A-18E/F Super Hornets and EA-18G Growlers is slated to shut down after 2016 unless the Pentagon's No. 2 supplier wins additional U.S. or foreign orders for the planes soo
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-may-slow-f-18-plane-output-keep-185324261--sector.html F-16
Lockheed has dramatically scaled back production of the F-16 at its sprawling facility in Fort Worth, Texas, to about one plane a month now - from a peak production rate of 30 planes a month in June 1987, said spokesman Mark Johnson.
The article from December 2013 mentions that there was 1 aircraft for Egypt being built, 12 for Oman and 36 for Iraq. I do not see how a plant can reduce output from 30 a month to 1 a month without an increase in the cost of producing each aircraft, jeopardising the chance of any further orders. So... it looks like F-16 will not be available much longer. Typhoon IIRC production will end 2017/2018 unless further orders are forthcoming. Allowing 2 years for long lead items, that would mean further orders needing to be placed within 18 months or so. Fortunately Saudi Arabia may order more within that time frame. Otherwise... Typhoon may not be available much longer. All in all it seems likely that by 2018 the number of western fighter candidates for orders will drop from 6 to 3: F-35, Gripen E and Rafale. That would not be so interesting. Would be good news for Dassault and SAAB, though - no similar competitor to have to compete with on price.
Original post
Profile picture for user Y-20 Bacon

Member for

6 years 5 months

Posts: 2,040

fighters are becoming too complicated and expensive to produce alone. thats why tanks are interesting. you got: US, Russia, China, Italy, France, Germany, Poland, Israel, Japan, Korea, Ukraine, making modern battle tanks. lots of diversity. not sure if UK is still producing Challenger 2s..although those were pretty great tanks too.

Member for

7 years 8 months

Posts: 4,165

fighters are becoming too complicated and expensive to produce alone. thats why tanks are interesting. you got: US, Russia, China, Italy, France, Germany, Poland, Israel, Japan, Korea, Ukraine, making modern battle tanks. lots of diversity. not sure if UK is still producing Challenger 2s..although those were pretty great tanks too.
Leclerc isnt anymore produced for years now.

Member for

8 years 1 month

Posts: 374

thats why tanks are interesting. you got: US, Russia, China, Italy, France, Germany, Poland, Israel, Japan, Korea, Ukraine, making modern battle tanks. lots of diversity. not sure if UK is still producing Challenger 2s..although those were pretty great tanks too. Italy has not produced a MBT for years. Poland produces a modernized version of T-72M1, it cannot really compete with T-80/90 modern versions. Ukraine does produce tanks but it's capability to do so is questionable. Ukraine has really struggled with Thailand contract and has only produced 5 tanks*. As pointed out above, France has not produced Leclerc in years. The same with the UK and Challenger-2. * Some sources that many old components have been used for these vehicles.
Profile picture for user swerve

Member for

14 years 4 months

Posts: 13,434

Some of those countries haven't built any tanks for a while. Italy - Ariete production ended 2002 France - last Leclerc built 2007, though production facilities kept UK - Challenger 2 2002 Poland - no new production currently, I think Leopard 2 was out of production for a while, though it's now resumed. Factory was occupied with upgrades. There's a lot of that going on. Factory still extant, producing batches when new orders come in, but otherwise keeping going with upgrades.
Profile picture for user Y-20 Bacon

Member for

6 years 5 months

Posts: 2,040

Some of those countries haven't built any tanks for a while. Italy - Ariete production ended 2002 France - last Leclerc built 2007, though production facilities kept UK - Challenger 2 2002 Poland - no new production currently, I think Leopard 2 was out of production for a while, though it's now resumed. Factory was occupied with upgrades. There's a lot of that going on. Factory still extant, producing batches when new orders come in, but otherwise keeping going with upgrades.
didn't know about LeClerc. Italy - Last I recall, they were trying to make Ariete C2 Poland - they were producing PT-91s as late as 2009. They are now experimenting with two new MBT design that's 30 tons. its a light tank Ukraine - the Thai order is recent so naturally it'd be slow. They completed the Pakistan order. However like the Leopard, many of these tanks that went out of production could be resumed, much more easily than aircraft production that is halted. The only thing is upgrading them to relevance, especially when you have a new generation of tanks coming out..i.e. Altay, Black Panther, Type 10, the tank Poland is making but I can't remember the name http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxvvgdm2_jo
Profile picture for user swerve

Member for

14 years 4 months

Posts: 13,434

Ariete C2, if it ever happens (& it's been in abeyance for a decade), will be rebuilds.
Profile picture for user TR1

Member for

9 years

Posts: 9,579

In no universe is the PT-91 a modern tank. Japan is kind of a special case of extremely expensive (due to production pace) vehicles that likely won't ever be seen outside Japan.
Profile picture for user Y-20 Bacon

Member for

6 years 5 months

Posts: 2,040

In no universe is the PT-91 a modern tank.
not the most modern, but apparently still being offered and still being upgraded so its fare game just like how China continues to produce upgraded variants stemming from the T-55, Ukraine with the T-80, and Russia with the T-72.
Japan is kind of a special case of extremely expensive (due to production pace) vehicles that likely won't ever be seen outside Japan.
Type 90 is cheaper than Leopard2A6 Type 10 is expensive, but still cheaper than LeClerc when it was offered.
Profile picture for user Freehand

Member for

7 years 5 months

Posts: 980

Choice of western tanks soon to narrow...

Member for

11 years 3 months

Posts: 992

Choices of newly-built "Western main battle tanks" in the next 10 to 15 years: 1. Turkish Altay MBT. 2. Israel Merkava IV MBT. 3. Japanese Type 10 MBT. 4. Southern Korean K2 Black Panther MBT. 5. Indian Arjun Mk II MBT.

Member for

11 years 3 months

Posts: 992

Choices of newly-built "Western fighters" after 2020 even if the production lines of Teen series and Typhoon are all dead at that time: 1. American F-35A/B/C. 2. French Rafale. 3. Sweden Gripen NG. 4. Turkish TFX. 5. Sourthern Korean KFX. 6. Sourthern Korean F/A-50. 7. Indian LCA Tejas MK II.
Profile picture for user TR1

Member for

9 years

Posts: 9,579

Choices of newly-built "Western main battle tanks" in the next 10 to 15 years: 1. Turkish Altay MBT. 2. Israel Merkava IV MBT. 3. Japanese Type 10 MBT. 4. Southern Korean K2 Black Panther MBT. 5. Indian Arjun Mk II MBT.
You know, I always thought the term "western" when used to describe equipment was stupid and far too unspecific, but this makes the term utterly laughable.
Profile picture for user obligatory

Member for

10 years 11 months

Posts: 6,983

I think toan put it in quotation mark to be ironic, you ought to do the satire course

Member for

9 years 9 months

Posts: 3,259

saying "non russian" may be far simpler and clearer to the casual reader who'd pass on this board, methinks ^^

Member for

8 years 2 months

Posts: 4,731

I think toan put it in quotation mark to be ironic, you ought to do the satire course
They are western in sense that they are using westen engines, design influences, components etc. it does not mean they are the best as the countries behind building them has relatively less money, experience with low yearly production volume.

Member for

7 years 8 months

Posts: 4,165

Relatively less money? Be serious and check countries GDPs...
Profile picture for user Reddor

Member for

9 years 4 months

Posts: 96

German AF canceled 37 Typhoons just last month its just no easy to keep up.

Member for

11 years 3 months

Posts: 2,595

Choices of newly-built "Western fighters" after 2020 even if the production lines of Teen series and Typhoon are all dead at that time: 1. American F-35A/B/C. 2. French Rafale. 3. Sweden Gripen NG. 4. Turkish TFX. 5. Sourthern Korean KFX. 6. Sourthern Korean F/A-50. 7. Indian LCA Tejas MK II.
Talking of non-Russian rather than western fighters, I doubt that Turkish TFX and South Korean KFX (or Indian AMCA) would be sufficiently developed to be of much use to any air force until the late 2020's. The choice to buy them might be there in 2020 but I think an air force would need to retain its existing fighters for many years until the new design being procured offered sufficient capability.

Member for

11 years 3 months

Posts: 992

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_KF-X 1. The KF-X has already gotten its first foreign customer: Indonesia. 2. On 5 January 2014, DAPA announced the approval of development of the KF-X. 3. If everything goes well, the KF-X shall be able to enter introduction at the time of 2023.

Member for

9 years 7 months

Posts: 4,993

How long before major western nations, start buying Asian manufactured combat aircraft ?