How will Turkey re-equip itself with Russian and Chinese aircraft and weapons?

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Turkey has long given up on EU and is showing strong signs of leaving NATO and joining Russia and potentially China. This means the days of tech transfers from the west is probably done. no more f16s. their stealth fighter project probably dead now (they never had the resources to begin with). so it the next 5 years it'll begin planning to acquire non western things to replace their western sourced weapons as they are now joining the SCO sphere. how canthey requip?
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Turkey is not leaving NATO. So long as Erdogan patch things up with Putin, NATO will need Turkish bases more than it needs NATO security guarantees. Having the two pilots responsible for the Su-24 shootdown arrested with insinuation that they did it to harm Russo-Turkish relations at behest of "foreign interest" was amusingly knavish. Having said that it would be nuts for US to sell them F-35s, but I wouldn't put money on a sane Turkish policy. I'm sure somewhere there's a J-31 salesman studying up on Turkish just in case.
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Turkey is not ...
It's a troll post. Why bother?
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it is the TRUTH http://sputniknews.com/military/20160810/1044125253/turkey-russia-nato-cavusoglu.html He explained that Ankara’s move to seek defense cooperation outside the Western military bloc stemmed from its dissatisfaction from exclusive work with NATO member states to date.
And then it starts to snow in Ougadougou... Can someone move this topic from the military aviation section, to the general one? SCI FI or alternate history should be treated in there, not here.

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Ruaf is doing round the clock bombing on Idlib and Aleppo without much public protest from Turkey. there is sense growing that Turkey is disposing off all the islamist inside Syria by pushing them into one place for joint actions. If Turkey cant become member of EU there is no reason for it to do its obligation for Nato.

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Turkey is not leaving NATO. So long as Erdogan patch things up with Putin, NATO will need Turkish bases more than it needs NATO security guarantees. Having the two pilots responsible for the Su-24 shootdown arrested with insinuation that they did it to harm Russo-Turkish relations at behest of "foreign interest" was amusingly knavish. Having said that it would be nuts for US to sell them F-35s, but I wouldn't put money on a sane Turkish policy. I'm sure somewhere there's a J-31 salesman studying up on Turkish just in case.
Its not just Turkey but selling to all Middleast modern weopons have significant drawback . Israel will be looking for its own interests.
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If Turkey cant become member of EU there is no reason for it to do its obligation for Nato.
What the hell has the EU got to do with NATO except for the fact that they are equally evil organizations? Nic
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Ok with that last post, let's move to the general thread /political rantings ASAP.

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What the hell has the EU got to do with NATO except for the fact that they are equally evil organizations? Nic
both has nearly identical membership and big layer of expensive governance.

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Its laughable to interpret what Çavuşoğlu said as such.. From where we stand, days of "free" NATO aids in weapons is long gone last one being M-60A3s in 1991. Now we spend $$$$ on new weaponary and simply put, western weapons come with too high price tag attached and I don't mean money... For example lets talk about tanks.. Germans *sold* us Leo2A4s on conditions they won't be used in conflicts inside Turkish territory, or Turkey's South East. While Turkey didn't lost any tank or tank crewmen againist PKK (though 3 crewmen injured as an indirect consequence of a RPG hit), you could surely imagine how we feel regarding Germans about that. What if our soldiers die tomorrow when technical difference between a Leo2 and a M-60 may save them? Hundreds of our most modern tanks is just waiting for the never coming day Greeks invade Turkey, while 2nd army is actively fighting a war againist terrorism and watching the hostile borders of Syria with simply obsolete M-60A3 tanks; all that to make Germans feel happy about it. This is only one of the mentioned high price of buying "western" defense equipment. Turkey plans to start serial production of its own domestic Altay tank in Q4 2016. What good will building 1000 domestic tanks do if we have to beg Germans for MTU diesels & spare parts, and what good those tanks are for if we cannot operate them the second our disgruntled German "allies" cut the supply of replacement engines and spare parts? When we ask for 100% licence production, somehow every one of our western "allies" become very reluctant. And there is a -very well deserved- mistrust to our western allies in fulfilling their contracts the second Turkish actions get politically "inconvinient".. Now the Turkish perspective; MTU diesels are great, but if Hyundai accepts licence production, then our new defense partner will be Koreans. Their engines may be not as reliable, but we would be manufacturing those engines our own, along with necessary spare parts as well. If Ukrainians offer co-development of the next generation 1800hp diesel for Altay, then our next defense partner will be Ukraine and not Germany. Its not about a hostility or a hatred againist west or NATO, its just business, and its just a move towards being more independent when we can. Rest of your comment as in:
This means the days of tech transfers from the west is probably done. no more f16s. their stealth fighter project probably dead now (they never had the resources to begin with).
is pathetically foolish. Tech transfer from west done? LACK OF tech transfer is the reason why Turkey prefers NOT buying western equipment anymore. Tech transfer is the sole prerequisite of all latest procurements, for example, US agreed on full tech tranfer and licence production of S-70 a few months ago, and T-70 will be the utility helicopter of Turkish Army. They disagreed to tranfer technology of AH-1Z, so there wont be a AH-1T, and A-129 is chosen instead. No country on earth wanted to transfer tech about UCAVs back in ~2007, so we bought from no one, started flying our own armed UAV designs in 7 years. We wanted to licence produce Hellfire missile, US didn't allowed that, and our UAVs and T-129 today fly with domestic ATGMs. List goes on and on, you see my point, I think. Regarding Stealth fighter project, I can safely say TAI is still recruiting new personel each month just for that project, and since you haven't been to TAI, you haven't got the slightest idea what resources they may or may not have at their disposal. You probably don't know the fact TAI is producing the middle hull and inlet ducts for for LRIP F-35As since ~October 2013, and I'd say they have quite equipment and the expertise for working with appropirate materials and composites required in a 5th gen fighter.

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Hundreds of our most modern tanks is just waiting for the never coming day Greeks invade Turkey.
Funny how Greeks also have their hundreds of considerably expensive tanks waiting for the -imminent according to the Turkish rhetoric- day those Leo A4s will invade the Greek North as a pincher move to divide Greek forces between the north and the islands that the Turkish forces will invade since they dispute, well, pretty much everything! Let's not forget that there are a couple still standing casus belli existing in the world and the one is the one Turkey issued to Greece!!! so ... And let's stop pretending Turkey didn't support ISIS. They only reason Turkish forces are on the borders with Syria is so the Kurds don't get their own Country. Somehow the notion of National identity escapes the turkish policies since the Ottoman times.

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Funny how Greeks also have their hundreds of considerably expensive tanks waiting for the -imminent according to the Turkish rhetoric- day those Leo A4s will invade the Greek North as a pincher move to divide Greek forces between the north and the islands that the Turkish forces will invade since they dispute, well, pretty much everything! Let's not forget that there are a couple still standing casus belli existing in the world and the one is the one Turkey issued to Greece!!! so ...
And your point in typing THIS in this topic? As irrelevant as it gets, Turkey has every right to act on a issue relevant to Turkish-Greek sea borders; on everywhere else such problems are handled by diplomacy. Greece offered none, and Turkey say casus belli IF Greeks say fait accompli. How this makes Turks hostile cavemen and Greeks good guys? If some country had found an excuse to deny Russian transition from Barents Sea and used this excuse to block Northern Fleet from reaching open seas, without even consulting Russia diplomatically, Russians would have acted againist that too. Had you've been Greek, I would have respected the opinion from your POV, and shared our POV, but since you are not, I won't discuss such topics with a Turkish-hater idiots who has no knowledge, emphaty nor objectivity, I am sorry.
And let's stop pretending Turkey didn't support ISIS. They only reason Turkish forces are on the borders with Syria is so the Kurds don't get their own Country.
And proof of your nonsense? Look, I don't like AKP or Erdogan for a dozen obvious reasons, but man said he will resign if anyone proves any assistance or cooperation with Islamic state. Same repeated by our minister of foreign affairs. And all russians did was to show some photos of trucks from Syria, which later turned out to be the trucks of Iraqi Pesmergah in Iraq (by their own acknowledgement), and Russians implied those trucks go to a refinary, which is actually owned by Koc family; one of the most secular, anti-religious and AKP-hater families in Turkey. Russian "proof" became a laughing stock even for AKP-haters for weeks, myself included, and even pitied by some as an act of desperation of talking too much BS while having so little to back it up, they had to openly LIE to the entire world. Other than that, there are plenty of hot air and empty talks, and, again, no proof back it up. Only falsified proofs exist, like the Russian BS I've mentioned, some photos by some US "analyst" showing a Turkish soldier IS terrorist side by side, Turkish soldier has pre-2009 land forces army uniform -which can be bought online- in a picture taken in 2015 and an AK-47 that is never used by Turkish Land Forces.
Somehow the notion of National identity escapes the turkish policies since the Ottoman times.
And, again, your point in this nonsense?

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And your point in typing THIS in this topic? As irrelevant as it gets, Turkey has every right to act on a issue relevant to Turkish-Greek sea borders; on everywhere else such problems are handled by diplomacy. Greece offered none, and Turkey say casus belli IF Greeks say fait accompli. How this makes Turks hostile cavemen and Greeks good guys? If some country had found an excuse to deny Russian transition from Barents Sea and used this excuse to block Northern Fleet from reaching open seas, without even consulting Russia diplomatically, Russians would have acted againist that too. Had you've been Greek, I would have respected the opinion from your POV, and shared our POV, but since you are not, I won't discuss such topics with a Turkish-hater idiots who has no knowledge, emphaty nor objectivity, I am sorry.
Oh you don't have to be sorry. This is a forum. The fact that each other's views are expressed for all to see is enough. We are judged by what we say. And by the way, criticism is not hating anyone. I couldn't care less to be honest about what other people do or are. But when I am presented with facts, histories and events, I am allowed to think and arrive at a conclusion. And besides..this is a forum! By the way, not to drag this out, but within a few lines you managed to put through the Turkish side's position. Just for the record, Greece has offered to use the equidistance principle as described internationally for those islands that cause Turkey concerns, but Turkey has refused to do so. Greece has even offered international mediation, Turkey has again said no.
And proof of your nonsense?
Any proof has been made available by the international press on multiple occasions. Google will suffice in this case.
Look, I don't like AKP or Erdogan for a dozen obvious reasons, but man said he will resign if anyone proves any assistance or cooperation with Islamic state. Same repeated by our minister of foreign affairs. And all russians did was to show some photos of trucks from Syria, which later turned out to be the trucks of Iraqi Pesmergah in Iraq (by their own acknowledgement), and Russians implied those trucks go to a refinary, which is actually owned by Koc family; one of the most secular, anti-religious and AKP-hater families in Turkey. Russian "proof" became a laughing stock even for AKP-haters for weeks, myself included, and even pitied by some as an act of desperation of talking too much BS while having so little to back it up, they had to openly LIE to the entire world.
Are you sure you should be saying this online at this time? I mean we may have different views, but I would hate you being dragged in some cell with the accusation of being against the regime and an impending death penalty above your head!
Other than that, there are plenty of hot air and empty talks, and, again, no proof back it up. Only falsified proofs exist, like the Russian BS I've mentioned, some photos by some US "analyst" showing a Turkish soldier IS terrorist side by side, Turkish soldier has pre-2009 land forces army uniform -which can be bought online- in a picture taken in 2015 and an AK-47 that is never used by Turkish Land Forces.
Answered above
And, again, your point in this nonsense?
Well, the very question of this thread implied political underlays. So.. political goings on and long standing policies are what we are hinting here. Nonetheless.. whether it is nonsense or not, is proven beyond doubt by your... heated reaction. ;)
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And proof of your nonsense? Look, I don't like AKP or Erdogan for a dozen obvious reasons, but man said he will resign if anyone proves any assistance or cooperation with Islamic state.
Let's be realistic here, anyone even remotely capable/willing to provide such evidence has magically found himself on the arrest list for the coup supporters..
And all russians did was to show some photos of trucks from Syria, which later turned out to be the trucks of Iraqi Pesmergah in Iraq (by their own acknowledgement), and Russians implied those trucks go to a refinary, which is actually owned by Koc family; one of the most secular, anti-religious and AKP-hater families in Turkey. Russian "proof" became a laughing stock even for AKP-haters for weeks, myself included, and even pitied by some as an act of desperation of talking too much BS while having so little to back it up, they had to openly LIE to the entire world.
I think Russians simply have traded their "acknowledgement" for something else, most probably pretty valuable to them.. seeing Erdogan providing words of deep regret and repentance over the ill-fated Su-24M, selling the THK pilots as "traitors who have damaged our good mutual relations".. the info Russian GRU have on him must be a bomb.. My 0.02 :)

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By the way, not to drag this out, but within a few lines you managed to put through the Turkish side's position. Just for the record, Greece has offered to use the equidistance principle as described internationally for those islands that cause Turkey concerns, but Turkey has refused to do so. Greece has even offered international mediation, Turkey has again said no.
Equidistance from where? Equidistance from mainlands, and 6 mile around the islands is accepted by Turkey. 12 mile from Greek mainlands, and 6 mile around islands AND 6 mile around Turkish mainlands is also accepted by Turkey. Equidistance from every piece of rock that stick half meter out of water? That leaves as few as 3 miles to Turkey in some regions, no international waters, and whole Aegean sea, its fishing economy, military significance will be handed over to Greeks. Any ship that passes from North of Crete island to west of Kos island then all the way straight to north into daranelles. If 12 miles is accepted, then every trade ship bound to Turkey would need to add 740+ nautical miles to their journey: to the east of rhodes, and closely following Turkish lands in order to make to Dardanelles. Is this seem a fair deal to you? International mediation from whom? Who will be the mediators? Will they be Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan? Its obviously unacceptable to Turkey if mediators are expected to act impartial almost certainly.
Any proof has been made available by the international press on multiple occasions. Google will suffice in this case.
Ah, perhaps my google is malfunctioning, care to share them?
Are you sure you should be saying this online at this time? I mean we may have different views, but I would hate you being dragged in some cell with the accusation of being against the regime and an impending death penalty above your head!
ROFL.
Well, the very question of this thread implied political underlays. So.. political goings on and long standing policies are what we are hinting here. Nonetheless.. whether it is nonsense or not, is proven beyond doubt by your... heated reaction. ;)
Heated reaction, because your post has exactly nothing to do with the orignal topic or the message my post delivers Political or not. Its only purposed to be anti-Turkish, and that only. Since you failed to get the message; When we buy western weapons, a) seller tries to dictate how we can use the product we buy b) seller doesn't provide what we want, which is the means to produce the product ourselves, not simply buy them painted and polished. So we seek new sellers a) doesn't care how we use their equipment b) allows us to build and modify their product as we please. This decision has nothing to with dislike againist west and sure as hell it has nothing to do with Greece or Turkish or ISIS or any of the BS you've written. [QUOTE=MSphere;2330444]Let's be realistic here, anyone even remotely capable/willing to provide such evidence has magically found himself on the arrest list for the coup supporters.. Well, lets be realistic here, anyone with such capability wouldn't be residing in Turkey, but logically, he would be in Syria with a video camera, or it would be some Russian or Syrian recon aircraft taking pictures from air. Every single bombing, every cluster bomb, every SRBM, every ATGM launch in Syria is caught on a video camera and found its way on to the youtube. Now Turkey collaborating with IS, providing them weapons and taking their oil for 3+ years and there is no single proof of that? Gee, I only hope our intelligence service is 1% as good. Idiots even get cought by petty journalists while trying to provide arms to Syrian Turkmen..
I think Russians simply have traded their "acknowledgement" for something else, most probably pretty valuable to them..
Your own speculation. Our own speculation in Turkey is this; Russia expected 1-formal apology, 2-compensation for the lost aircraft, 3-compensation to the family, 4-judgement of the men who killed the pilot. before relations can be improved. Turkey offered NONE of these. Even yesterday, Erdogan said, 1-Russian side admitted first aircraft crossed the border but they still deny second aircraft which involved in the event crossed the border. We will provide all radar data to Russia to prove their border violation. 2-They (pilots who shot down the Su-24) are being trialled of a crime totally irrelevant to the shooting down event so don't try and make a correlation between these two unrelated events. 3- Alparslan Çelik (who is claimed to be the man who killed the russian pilot) is under arrested for totally unrelated crime of carrying unregistered firearms, although his trials and concerning the killing of the pilot is also ongoing and evidence is being looked at, it would be inappropirate for me to comment on an ongoing trial. From where I stand, "regret" was offered on day#1, and Turkey's position hasn't changed the slightest since then. So I believe there is something Russia badly needs from Turkey, so badly and immediately that they even gave up their pride in this matter, swallowed all their statements and come to table over an unfounded excuse of passing "deep regret" as an "apology".
selling the THK pilots as "traitors who have damaged our good mutual relations"..
Where did he said that? Only statement I recall is "our good mutual relations shouldn't have degraded by a mistake of one pilot". Which was considered as selling THK pilots, and he had to correct that with "I was obviously referring to the mistake of Russian pilot who crossed our border, of course".

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. Tech transfer from west done? LACK OF tech transfer is the reason why Turkey prefers NOT buying western equipment anymore. Tech transfer is the sole prerequisite of all latest procurements, for example, US agreed on full tech tranfer and licence production of S-70 a few months ago, and T-70 will be the utility helicopter of Turkish Army. They disagreed to tranfer technology of AH-1Z, so there wont be a AH-1T, and A-129 is chosen instead. No country on earth wanted to transfer tech about UCAVs back in ~2007, so we bought from no one, started flying our own armed UAV designs in 7 years. We wanted to licence produce Hellfire missile, US didn't allowed that, and our UAVs and T-129 today fly with domestic ATGMs. List goes on and on, you see my point, I think.
how many UCAVs and T-129 are actually in service and can they sustain high tempo operations.
Regarding Stealth fighter project, I can safely say TAI is still recruiting new personel each month just for that project, and since you haven't been to TAI, you haven't got the slightest idea what resources they may or may not have at their disposal. You probably don't know the fact TAI is producing the middle hull and inlet ducts for for LRIP F-35As since ~October 2013, and I'd say they have quite equipment and the expertise for working with appropirate materials and composites required in a 5th gen fighter.
the key question is where those workers got trained and from where the industrial machinery imported to built the parts. and there is huge difference in managing parts and the whole project.

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Every single bombing, every cluster bomb, every SRBM, every ATGM launch in Syria is caught on a video camera and found its way on to the youtube. Now Turkey collaborating with IS, providing them weapons and taking their oil for 3+ years and there is no single proof of that? Gee, I only hope our intelligence service is 1% as good. Idiots even get cought by petty journalists while trying to provide arms to Syrian Turkmen..
every single?. think over it.
Your own speculation. Our own speculation in Turkey is this; Russia expected 1-formal apology, 2-compensation for the lost aircraft, 3-compensation to the family, 4-judgement of the men who killed the pilot. before relations can be improved. Turkey offered NONE of these. Even yesterday, Erdogan said, 1-Russian side admitted first aircraft crossed the border but they still deny second aircraft which involved in the event crossed the border. We will provide all radar data to Russia to prove their border violation. 2-They (pilots who shot down the Su-24) are being trialled of a crime totally irrelevant to the shooting down event so don't try and make a correlation between these two unrelated events. 3- Alparslan Çelik (who is claimed to be the man who killed the russian pilot) is under arrested for totally unrelated crime of carrying unregistered firearms, although his trials and concerning the killing of the pilot is also ongoing and evidence is being looked at, it would be inappropirate for me to comment on an ongoing trial. From where I stand, "regret" was offered on day#1, and Turkey's position hasn't changed the slightest since then. So I believe there is something Russia badly needs from Turkey, so badly and immediately that they even gave up their pride in this matter, swallowed all their statements and come to table over an unfounded excuse of passing "deep regret" as an "apology". Where did he said that? Only statement I recall is "our good mutual relations shouldn't have degraded by a mistake of one pilot". Which was considered as selling THK pilots, and he had to correct that with "I was obviously referring to the mistake of Russian pilot who crossed our border, of course".
There is no border crossing that's why rest of Nato left you high and dry. Nato wants impose there own AWACS so that Turkey is under control . The reason for normalization is very different (To encourage Turkey to fight West, to get more money from Arabs in bargaining by showing Russia normalization).
http://www.presstv.ir/DetailFr/2016/06/30/472978/Iran-Turkey-Russia-Bahram-Qassemi-Putin-Erdogan Iran welcomes steps by Russia, Turkey to mend ties
Turkey can send all the cannon fodder and Ruaf will bomb them endlessly. it does not impact them but some point will come that West and Arabs will punish Turkey for this dysfunctional policy.
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Well, lets be realistic here, anyone with such capability wouldn't be residing in Turkey, but logically, he would be in Syria with a video camera, or it would be some Russian or Syrian recon aircraft taking pictures from air. Every single bombing, every cluster bomb, every SRBM, every ATGM launch in Syria is caught on a video camera and found its way on to the youtube. Now Turkey collaborating with IS, providing them weapons and taking their oil for 3+ years and there is no single proof of that?
A nonsensical claim, TBH.. No video cameras are capable to tell what are those convoys of trucks ferrying stuff from Turkey to Syria and back loaded with.. It could be anything from bags of rice to MANPADS and they would still look the same from above.. so exactly what kind of proof would you expect to get?
From where I stand, "regret" was offered on day#1, and Turkey's position hasn't changed the slightest since then.
Are you even trying to be serious? Davutoglu in Nov 2015: It was decided that in the event of our airspace being violated, all necessarily measures would be taken, all relevant orders to the armed forces were given by me, personally. Davutoglu in Jul 2016: “I did not give the order to shoot down that plane,” Davutoglu told NTV, claiming it would not have been possible to give the order as the Russian plane allegedly spent 17 seconds in Turkish airspace BTW, the regret was not offered on day 1, it was first offered in Erdogan's letter to Putin in June 2016, 7 months after the incident..
So I believe there is something Russia badly needs from Turkey, so badly and immediately that they even gave up their pride in this matter, swallowed all their statements and come to table over an unfounded excuse of passing "deep regret" as an "apology".
LOL... you are now completely losing any credibility in my eyes.. . it's Edogan who is writing letters of regret, not Putin.. it's Erdogan doing the traveling to Moscow to restore the relations, not Putin to Ankara.. It's Putin who is rolling back the ban on the sales of holidays, food imports and construction, not Erdogan.. And finally, it's Erdogan who is calling Russia "a strategic partner and a friend", not vice versa.. so WTF are you trying to sell me here?
They (pilots who shot down the Su-24) are being trialled of a crime totally irrelevant to the shooting down event so don't try and make a correlation between these two unrelated events. 3- Alparslan Çelik (who is claimed to be the man who killed the russian pilot) is under arrested for totally unrelated crime of carrying unregistered firearms, although his trials and concerning the killing of the pilot is also ongoing and evidence is being looked at, it would be inappropirate for me to comment on an ongoing trial.
Where did he said that? Only statement I recall is "our good mutual relations shouldn't have degraded by a mistake of one pilot". Which was considered as selling THK pilots, and he had to correct that with "I was obviously referring to the mistake of Russian pilot who crossed our border, of course".
The official talking to AFP insisted that the military pilots have been arrested over links to the coup and not because of the attack on the Russian plane. But, Ankara Mayor Melih Gokcek argued that the pilots, who are allegedly supporters of the US-based Muslim cleric Fettullah Gulen, may have shot the Russian plane as part of a conspiracy to harm the Turkish government. The Turkish government and President Recep Tayyip Erdogan blame Gulen's movement, which they refer to as the "parallel state", and his supporters within the army for trying to stage the failed coup. Talking to CNN Turk in the aftermath of the coup attempt, Gokcek said: "The parallels are responsible for the tension between Russia and us. That incident [the downing of the Russian plane] was orchestrated by a pilot who belongs to the parallel state. "I say this one hundred percent. We were not voicing this before, we were gulping this down," he said. "But, now I say this, as Melih Gokcek, these rascals caused the rift between Russia and us. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/turkish-pilots-downed-russian-jet-detained-160719132950496.html

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What the hell has the EU got to do with NATO except for the fact that they are equally evil organizations? Nic
Evil? Compared to what? The Warsaw Pact? al Qaeda? ISIS? Seems you have a rather primitive, simplistic, and naïve understanding of the word.
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What Putin want from Turkey, the one big thing, is creating a rift between NATO and Turkey. That has been one of Putin long term approach since he became President. Not just Turkey, but any NATO country.