Would you choose a MiG-35 over an Su-30 or Su-35?

Profile picture for user Y-20 Bacon

Member for

6 years 5 months

Posts: 2,040

For those countries that usually buy Russian, they are usually end up with the choice of new Fulcrum variants or new Flanker variants competing with each other. which would you choose if you were in that position?
Original post
Profile picture for user MSphere

Member for

9 years 7 months

Posts: 8,850

If you do not require excessive combat loads or extreme range, then the Super Fulcrum is a good option. But I'd wait for a decent phased array radar first, the Zhuk-ME is so retro.

Member for

8 years 1 month

Posts: 374

If you do not require excessive combat loads or extreme range, then the Super Fulcrum is a good option. But I'd wait for a decent phased array radar first, the Zhuk-ME is so retro
Also, if you already operate the Fulcrum (Peru) is a logical choice as money is saved on infrastructure/creation of a supply chain.
Profile picture for user Marcellogo

Member for

5 years 4 months

Posts: 1,758

In the case you are a small/poor/landlocked nation (except Kazahstan or Ethiopia) Mig-35, if you are one with a great sea surface to patrol,Su-30, anything in between (Ethiopia also there )Su-27/35, Kasakhstan MiG-31. Look also at what Russia do: Central area and all the northernmost Bases have Mig-31, Eastern Su-27 and -30, Mig-29 are mostly in Southern one and in Kaliningrad, Western one a fancy mix, Sevastopol being a Navy location going Su-30.
Profile picture for user Y-20 Bacon

Member for

6 years 5 months

Posts: 2,040

In the case you are a small/poor/landlocked nation (except Kazahstan or Ethiopia) Mig-35, if you are one with a great sea surface to patrol,Su-30, anything in between (Ethiopia also there )Su-27/35, Kasakhstan MiG-31. Look also at what Russia do: Central area and all the northernmost Bases have Mig-31, Eastern Su-27 and -30, Mig-29 are mostly in Southern one and in Kaliningrad, Western one a fancy mix, Sevastopol being a Navy location going Su-30.
Also, if you already operate the Fulcrum (Peru) is a logical choice as money is saved on infrastructure/creation of a supply chain.
Yes but in reality it didn't happen like that. Belarus - small and landlocked. No Flankers (they retired them) but has Fulcrums. They will choose the Su-30SM instead of the MiG-35 as their next aircraft Egypt - somewhat big with maritime areas, should choose su-30 or 35 but chose the MiG-35 instead
Profile picture for user paralay

Member for

14 years 2 months

Posts: 1,344

Combat Potency, MiG-35 - AESA: dog fight: Su-30MKM (1.25), the Su-35 (1.93), the MiG-35 (1.64) long-range air combat: Su-30MKM (0.92), the Su-35S (1.9), the MiG-35 (1.44) attack ground targets: Su-30MKM (1.09), the Su-35S (1.53), the MiG-35 (1.27) Self-Defense: Su-30MKM (0.62), the Su-35S (0.81), the MiG-35 (0.77) Total capacity: Su-30MKM 1.25 * 0.92 * 1.09 * 0.62 = 0.78 Su-35S 1.93 * 1.9 * 1.53 * 0.81 = 4.54 MiG-35 1.64 * 1.44 * 1.27 * 0.77 = 2.31 cost of (the domestic price / external price) Su-30MKM 50 million. $ / 80 million. $ / 1.6 Su-35S 42 million. $ / 62.5 million. $ / 1.25 MiG-35 31 million. $ / 50 million. $ / 1.0 Efficiency / Cost: Su-30MKM 0.78 / 1.6 = 0.49 MiG-35 2.31 / 1.0 = 2.31 Su-35S 4.54 / 1.25 = 3.63 Su-35s - the best choice

Member for

8 years 2 months

Posts: 4,731

Yes but in reality it didn't happen like that. Belarus - small and landlocked. No Flankers (they retired them) but has Fulcrums. They will choose the Su-30SM instead of the MiG-35 as their next aircraft Egypt - somewhat big with maritime areas, should choose su-30 or 35 but chose the MiG-35 instead
MIG35 has to go through Ruaf for few years . Su30SM already in production.
Profile picture for user Marcellogo

Member for

5 years 4 months

Posts: 1,758

Combat Potency, MiG-35 - AESA: dog fight: Su-30MKM (1.25), the Su-35 (1.93), the MiG-35 (1.64) long-range air combat: Su-30MKM (0.92), the Su-35S (1.9), the MiG-35 (1.44) attack ground targets: Su-30MKM (1.09), the Su-35S (1.53), the MiG-35 (1.27) Self-Defense: Su-30MKM (0.62), the Su-35S (0.81), the MiG-35 (0.77) Total capacity: Su-30MKM 1.25 * 0.92 * 1.09 * 0.62 = 0.78 Su-35S 1.93 * 1.9 * 1.53 * 0.81 = 4.54 MiG-35 1.64 * 1.44 * 1.27 * 0.77 = 2.31 cost of (the domestic price / external price) Su-30MKM 50 million. $ / 80 million. $ / 1.6 Su-35S 42 million. $ / 62.5 million. $ / 1.25 MiG-35 31 million. $ / 50 million. $ / 1.0 Efficiency / Cost: Su-30MKM 0.78 / 1.6 = 0.49 MiG-35 2.31 / 1.0 = 2.31 Su-35S 4.54 / 1.25 = 3.63 Su-35s - the best choice
Still have to be considered the operative cost however.
Profile picture for user paralay

Member for

14 years 2 months

Posts: 1,344

Still have to be considered the operative cost however.
Su-30 20000 - 25000 $ / hour flight Su-35S 10000 - 15000 $ / hour flight (presumably) MiG-35 7500 $ / hour flight
Profile picture for user BlackArcher

Member for

8 years 10 months

Posts: 3,337

Given India's experience with the Su-30MKI and the MiG-29K, I think its a no-brainer. The Su-30 would be what I would go with. More capable, more range, more payload, more mature and way better serviceability and reliability.
Profile picture for user KGB

Member for

3 years 6 months

Posts: 1,168

Yes but in reality it didn't happen like that. Belarus - small and landlocked. No Flankers (they retired them) but has Fulcrums. They will choose the Su-30SM instead of the MiG-35 as their next aircraft Egypt - somewhat big with maritime areas, should choose su-30 or 35 but chose the MiG-35 instead
Its kind of like asking if a country would prefer F-16's over F-18's. A properly balanced out air force would want both.
Profile picture for user KGB

Member for

3 years 6 months

Posts: 1,168

Su-30 20000 - 25000 $ / hour flight Su-35S 10000 - 15000 $ / hour flight (presumably) MiG-35 7500 $ / hour flight
And the percentage gap between F-16 operating costs and F 18 operating cost would be similar. Its not one or the other. A properly balanced air force would have A-10's , F-16's and F-15's. A proper Russian built force would have Frogfoots, Fulcrums and Flankers.

Member for

14 years

Posts: 135

The difference in range between Su-30 and MiG-29M/35 is not as great as some forum members would like to think. Su-30SM/MKI maximum range is 3000km. MiG-29M/35's range on internal fuel is 2000km, but with the new enlarged centerline drop tank it should reach about 2800km. So the real question is how often the airforces fielding Flankers, routinely operate with maximum fuel capacity and maximum payload.
Profile picture for user MSphere

Member for

9 years 7 months

Posts: 8,850

Su-30 20000 - 25000 $ / hour flight Su-35S 10000 - 15000 $ / hour flight (presumably) MiG-35 7500 $ / hour flight
The numbers for the Su-30 don't make much sense.. obviously a different way of cost calculation. Based on the USAF figures, a mission cost for an F-15E is "only" ~25% more than that of an F-16C. I expect similar difference here..
Profile picture for user paralay

Member for

14 years 2 months

Posts: 1,344

The numbers for the Su-30 don't make much sense.. obviously a different way of cost calculation
MiG-29 - 15000 $ / hour flight, for the foreign customers - 30000 $ / hour flight
Profile picture for user Y-20 Bacon

Member for

6 years 5 months

Posts: 2,040

Combat Potency, MiG-35 - AESA: dog fight: Su-30MKM (1.25), the Su-35 (1.93), the MiG-35 (1.64) long-range air combat: Su-30MKM (0.92), the Su-35S (1.9), the MiG-35 (1.44) attack ground targets: Su-30MKM (1.09), the Su-35S (1.53), the MiG-35 (1.27) Self-Defense: Su-30MKM (0.62), the Su-35S (0.81), the MiG-35 (0.77)
I've no idea how you came up with these numbers. the MKI/MKM/SM or whatever, currently has the most proven ground attack capabilities, so I'm not sure why it's rated so low. did you just make random numbers
Profile picture for user haavarla

Member for

10 years 10 months

Posts: 6,437

Su-30 20000 - 25000 $ / hour flight Su-35S 10000 - 15000 $ / hour flight (presumably) MiG-35 7500 $ / hour flight
Why the big gap on Su-30SM and Su-35s? 2 vs 1 crew?
Profile picture for user MSphere

Member for

9 years 7 months

Posts: 8,850

Why the big gap on Su-30SM and Su-35s? 2 vs 1 crew?
So what?
Profile picture for user paralay

Member for

14 years 2 months

Posts: 1,344

Why the big gap on Su-30SM and Su-35s? 2 vs 1 crew?
Changed the principle of service, the Su-30 - "service under the rules of" (обслуживание по регламенту), Su-35s and MiG-35 - "condition maintenance" (обслуживание по техническому состоянию), perhaps this is the reason
Profile picture for user paralay

Member for

14 years 2 months

Posts: 1,344

I've no idea how you came up with these numbers.
What is the problem? ask me
Profile picture for user haavarla

Member for

10 years 10 months

Posts: 6,437

So what?
I don't know about salleries in Russians AF. But if this would have been in Norway, the difference with paying one vs two crew would be quite telling. Besides, we are talking flight cost per hour on average. That would be with training or re-training cost for new systems.