Franco-German next generation fighter

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now im curious if German have its own vision on what's look alike. Or maybe it's the one in Airbus Video. The engine would probably "hybrid" between whatever German learns with EJ-2000 and French M-88.

Given the vision of this aircraft. This might entail very sophisticated high bandwidth communication system. The front end would be the AESA radar with suitable waveform for the task. Air datalinking can occupy up to 33% duty cycle at the heaviest point, this might deny the radar to conduct search tho. So more realistic value should be bit lower maybe 10%. The required power would be small, only as high as needed to counter weather. It will have range to at least 200-250 km against typical fighter like Russian one to allow employment of Meteor at very long range if needed. For controlling UAV tho i would expect 3 faced arrays like Russian approach with Su-57. Should there only 1 nose array however that might constrain the employment of high bandwidth datalink but shuldnt be a problem given the UAV will likely always be at front.

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now im curious if German have its own vision on what's look alike. Or maybe it's the one in Airbus Video.

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Mind you, this was "designed" around the specifications for a Tornado replacement.

The engine would probably "hybrid" between whatever German learns with EJ-2000 and French M-88.

Clean sheet

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[USER="39911"]TomcatViP[/USER] - It's "Do not go gentle into that good night" and "Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

[USER="15685"]Sintra[/USER] - Definitely a clean sheet. It makes about as much sense to try to power a 2040s era fighter with a souped up M88 as it does to try to power a Raptor with a souped up Rolls Royce Nene. A lot of new innovations are going to be made in that time.

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Oh yeah thank you. I am even more embarrassed that I read it again probably no more than a couple of weeks ago :o

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now im curious if German have its own vision on what's look alike. Or maybe it's the one in Airbus Video. The engine would probably "hybrid" between whatever German learns with EJ-2000 and French M-88.

Given the vision of this aircraft. This might entail very sophisticated high bandwidth communication system. The front end would be the AESA radar with suitable waveform for the task. Air datalinking can occupy up to 33% duty cycle at the heaviest point, this might deny the radar to conduct search tho. So more realistic value should be bit lower maybe 10%. The required power would be small, only as high as needed to counter weather. It will have range to at least 200-250 km against typical fighter like Russian one to allow employment of Meteor at very long range if needed. For controlling UAV tho i would expect 3 faced arrays like Russian approach with Su-57. Should there only 1 nose array however that might constrain the employment of high bandwidth datalink but shuldnt be a problem given the UAV will likely always be at front.

We have some more information now. First 2*9T engines (power generation). conformal tile based GaN arrays. (multiple functions). All in all, a communication ser ve "à la " F-35, but within an open system (not "à la f-35) including satellites, AWCQ/tankers, UCAV, expandable intelligent "carriers" , intelligent swarms etc. The idea is to build a system FROM a core and not link platforms after they are built. hey scorpion (armée de terre) is integrated, aswell asMN. Next step is RAfale, probably EFT etc.

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in Air Force Magazine

The goal is to have a deployable system in 2040. The companies and two militaries have two years to study the architecture and systems based on the agreement.

Other countries, such as Spain, have signed on to be observers on the FCAS program, though there is potential they could become participants and try to field the aircraft as well, Lavigne said. The development also needs to focus on interoperability with allied aircraft once fielded, he said. Individual aircraft from allies bring separate strengths to a fight and will work best together when integrated well.

“In rugby, I like to play with the best guy on my team,” he said. “So we have to be individually very good. F-35, F-22, Typhoon, Rafale. All are good players and they’ve got differences.”

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Move was expected, Spain is involved with Airbus consortium and so have a convenience to side with them.
Same with Sweden with UK Tempest,
My own country would probably side with them also, actually we are already in it through Leonardo UK from the beginning.
Our government is just too recent and busy to seriously think about it. Also because we are waiting the Thing-not-to be-mentioned-in-this-forum to happen in order to have a clearer idea of the legal framework we would need to operate in.

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Move was expected, Spain is involved with Airbus consortium and so have a convenience to side with them.
Same with Sweden with UK Tempest,
My own country would probably side with them also, actually we are already in it through Leonardo UK from the beginning.
Our government is just too recent and busy to seriously think about it. Also because we are waiting the Thing-not-to be-mentioned-in-this-forum to happen in order to have a clearer idea of the legal framework we would need to operate in.

Surely Spain will buy F-35B for its Aircraft carrier fleet to replace AV-8 Harrier, but after this decition (joining program with France and Germany) F-35 A will be not bought for to replace the old F/A 18. I think will be bought more EF´s (tranche 3) until new european 5º fighter generation will arrive. This will be anounced on this year too.

Really I think it is bette solution to buy F-35 A and not more EF´s, and militar oficials think too, but will be a political decition....as in Germany happened.

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STOVL is not in the cards for any new "European" fighter. F-35B is their only viable option for their carrier.

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Surely Spain will buy F-35B for its Aircraft carrier fleet to replace AV-8 Harrier, but after this decition (joining program with France and Germany) F-35 A will be not bought for to replace the old F/A 18. I think will be bought more EF´s (tranche 3) until new european 5º fighter generation will arrive. This will be anounced on this year too.

Really I think it is bette solution to buy F-35 A and not more EF´s, and militar oficials think too, but will be a political decition....as in Germany happened.

Either that or make Juan Carlos STOBAR.

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Most likely outcome: no fighters for the spanish navy after AV8B. Not a bad outcome from my point of view. I expect more Eurofighters which makes sense considering logistics and industrial considerations. After that, we will probably try to get into the FCAS, unless the conditions for joining them are far too bad in which case me might consider a mature F35 or even a possible British alternative. As usual budget constraints will have a say in the whole business.

Most likely outcome: no fighters for the spanish navy after AV8B. Not a bad outcome from my point of view. I expect more Eurofighters which makes sense considering logistics and industrial considerations. After that, we will probably try to get into the FCAS, unless the conditions for joining them are far too bad in which case me might consider a mature F35 or even a possible British alternative. As usual budget constraints will have a say in the whole business.

Not a bad out come! What??? So, Spain should maintain a fleet of obsolete fighters for another 20+ years. Until the NGF is available!

Also, the Spanish Navy is very influential. So, I wouldn't rule out getting at least a modest number of F-35B's for the Juan Carlos.

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Either that or make Juan Carlos STOBAR.

That´s right.

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6 years 7 months

Posts: 156

Most likely outcome: no fighters for the spanish navy after AV8B. Not a bad outcome from my point of view. I expect more Eurofighters which makes sense considering logistics and industrial considerations. After that, we will probably try to get into the FCAS, unless the conditions for joining them are far too bad in which case me might consider a mature F35 or even a possible British alternative. As usual budget constraints will have a say in the whole business.

F-35B will be, sure. Armada will have fighters as always and F-35B is the only option.

EF´s tranche 3 is 4+ generation. It is not comparable to any platform 5º generation as F-35. And really, is more expesive item than F-35. So, only from political decition can explain this. Generals want F-35 A because they told it, and it is the best solution get a fleet with EF´s+F-35 waiting 20 years for replace old EF´s for new 5º european stealñth fighter. Ef and F-35 are complementary items and F-35 can help to EF to be more lethal (Uk and Italy aproach this way). And for to replace an attack fighter as F/A-18 the best solution is other attack fighter as F-35. EF was not designed as an attack fighter, but superiory defence fighter. It can not make so good functions than especialized attack fighter.

So, the best option from a funtional point, operative point, money point is the F-35. If finally decide buy more EF´s (i think so) is only because political decitions. And maybe on this moment France and germany are pushing for it.

F-35B will be, sure. Armada will have fighters as always and F-35B is the only option.

EF´s tranche 3 is 4+ generation. It is not comparable to any platform 5º generation as F-35. And really, is more expesive item than F-35. So, only from political decition can explain this. Generals want F-35 A because they told it, and it is the best solution get a fleet with EF´s+F-35 waiting 20 years for replace old EF´s for new 5º european stealñth fighter. Ef and F-35 are complementary items and F-35 can help to EF to be more lethal (Uk and Italy aproach this way). And for to replace an attack fighter as F/A-18 the best solution is other attack fighter as F-35. EF was not designed as an attack fighter, but superiory defence fighter. It can not make so good functions than especialized attack fighter.

So, the best option from a funtional point, operative point, money point is the F-35. If finally decide buy more EF´s (i think so) is only because political decitions. And maybe on this moment France and germany are pushing for it.

Yes, no conflict here like in Germany. As the F-35A's could replace the Hornets and the F-35B's the Harriers. While, keeping the Typhoons until the NGF comes online. (Win-Win)

Honestly, this idea a win for the F-35 is somehow a loss for the NGF is "absurd". (different Generations)

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EF´s tranche 3 is 4+ generation. It is not comparable to any platform 5º generation as F-35

i love those bold assessments. Everything depends on context,mission types, doctrina etc.

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By parts, the oldest Hornets at Gando will almost certainly be replaced in 2025 by a follow up batch of Typhoons. The AV-8B's of the Armada are slated for a replacement in 2034, that's the F-35B or nothing at all, mind you, very recently the "nothing at all" was a very distinct possibility, that decision will be taken a decade from now. The rest of the Hornets will be replaced in the thirties by whatever comes out of this new program. That's more or less what can be gleamed from the Spanish journos. If any of our Spanish friends here have more up to date news, much obliged.

Cheers

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Dirke Hoke, head of Airbus Defence and Space:

“I consider it extremely dangerous to develop a system like FCAS (the Franco-German fighter programme) without the British,” he said, noting that potential order quantities would rise if Britain participated, making future aircraft more competitive.

Source:
Reuters.com