By: RALL
- 5th April 2019 at 10:50Permalink- Edited 5th April 2019 at 11:15
The fly-away unit price per T3 Eurofighter is probably not much different compared to an F-35. The primary cost driver for the F-35 compared to the Eurofighter would be the establishment of the support infrastructure and logistics in general. Those costs are significant and are the typical reason why the "system price" is often twice as high or higher than the fly-away price. There are ofcourse other factors such as the overall number of aircraft and how they are spread over units and airfields. Most cost comparisons are apples and oranges as the detailed cost breakdown is usually missing and as different offers are mostly not comparable.
Yes, but if you need to buy 50 EF, then with 35 F-35 is enough for to make same missions. So your unit/cost and total cost will be a lot less on the case of F-35 A. And less pilots are necesary too. Cost of new infraestructures is for all life of the F-35 (30-40 years), and you do not pay already on first month.
Unit cost of EF is around 100 million euros, not less than this sure, for germany many years ago it was 90 million euros, so now will be worst. F-35 A is 89 million dollars on this moment, that is around 80 million euros now.
Per hour operating cost of the F-35 A will be around 25.000 dollars at 2025 american official told, less than F-16. And for EF is similar to this number.
By: RALL
- 5th April 2019 at 10:55Permalink- Edited 5th April 2019 at 10:56
Pick the costs of acquiring some fourty Eurofighter T3´s, for the Esercito (or the Luftwaffe) then multiply by two... or three. That would be the cost of implementing an entirely new aircraft into their fleet. The Phoon is already the backbone of their fleets, the suport, training, logistics are already in place.
The possible acquisition of F-35A´s by the Ejercito Del Aire "around middle of next century" looks very much dead.
Unless a) Airbus gets out of Spain or b) the SCAF program crashes and burns or c) an entirely new Spanish Government makes a very radical U turn, the Spanish Air Force wont see Dave A in their colours.
The Navy is trying to maintain some sort of hope for their fighter force, good luck, they are going to need it.
SCAF program do not have nothing to do with adquisition or not of F-35 A.
SCAF bornt to replace currents EF´s and RAFALE on 2040 decade. We need replacement for around 80 F-18 before 2030 and it is not possible with only 30 or 40 more EF´s.
It is very clear preference from Ejercito del Aire is to have a mixture force with EF and F-35. So, F-35 A is open on this moment. Time will tell if finally version A will come around 2025-2030. But sure F-35B will come.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-us...-idUKKCN1RG2O7 [INDENT]In written testimony submitted to the U.S. House of Representatives and seen by Reuters, Vice Admiral Mathias Winter - the head of the Pentagon’s F-35 office - said that “future potential Foreign Military Sales customers include Singapore, Greece, Romania, Spain and Poland.”[/INDENT]
By: TomcatViP
- 5th April 2019 at 20:31Permalink- Edited 5th April 2019 at 20:31
that sounds funny, you know. The most connected fighter that many air force say revolutionize information sharing would be by you... a closed loop?! :stupid:
By: TooCool_12f
- 7th April 2019 at 17:08Permalink
And other thing...EF is expensive than F-35A. So, When you tell, that Spain can not buy F-35A because is expensive it does not have any sense to buy more expensive EF tranche 3. This is not logical and this is a political decition anyway.
EF is much cheaper for Spain than the F-35 for a very simple reason (besides the training and support infrastructures to put into place): It is built in Spain.. meaning, most of the money spent will remain in Spain and get back into spanish budget through taxes and so on... Buying the F-35 means sending it away, which is pretty much the same for their budget as shredding right there...
I was well aware of Urcelays comments at the moment of making mine. Only I don't see who in the Spanish government will authorize the bill for the F35B plus I don't consider this embarked wing as a particularly interesting capability when considering Spanish logistics, budgets, international policies and approach to conflicts. Now, in here (https://publicaciones.defensa.gob.es/revista-espanola-de-defensa-359-revistas-pdf.html) you can download the Spanish defense magazine and when taking a look to page 44 where FCAS is considered, the information there is that 40 Eurofighter have been requested by the air force to substitute 80 F18s until FCAS arrives, no mention whatsoever to the F35. Plus in a recent comment in this regard what was stated was that F35 is the reference but that Eurofighter is the best option for Spain being that the reason why the Air Force has requested more Eurofighter. Which basically means"we would like to have F35 but for us (air force) the Eurofighter covers the needs plus we understand industrial considerations"
Not that I believe that F35 doors are completely closed in Spain, nor that I wouldn't welcome a wing of F35A for the air force, but with current policies and budgets I think it is very unlikely to get them in the foreseeable future. FCAS and 40 more Eurofighter, however, are over the table as of now. Ones is the long term bet, the other the short term for substituting F18s and maintaining Spanish Eurofighter FAL open.
So, the Spanish Navy is going to get out of operating Fixed Wing Aircraft from the Juan Carlos I /BPE??? News to me.....:eek:
EF is much cheaper for Spain than the F-35 for a very simple reason (besides the training and support infrastructures to put into place): It is built in Spain.. meaning, most of the money spent will remain in Spain and get back into spanish budget through taxes and so on... Buying the F-35 means sending it away, which is pretty much the same for their budget as shredding right there...[/QUOTE
Please, provide us a source to support that??? I didn't realize Spain share was that large in the EuroFighter Program.
By: TooCool_12f
- 9th April 2019 at 22:10Permalink
[QUOTE=Scooter;n3858885]
EF is much cheaper for Spain than the F-35 for a very simple reason (besides the training and support infrastructures to put into place): It is built in Spain.. meaning, most of the money spent will remain in Spain and get back into spanish budget through taxes and so on... Buying the F-35 means sending it away, which is pretty much the same for their budget as shredding right there...[/QUOTE
Please, provide us a source to support that??? I didn't realize Spain share was that large in the EuroFighter Program.
a major reason for the Typhoon not benefiting of economy of scale while being ordered in quite significant numbers (for a european aircraft, that is) was the fact that every partner nation wanted (and got) its own assembly chain... So if spaniards order more Typhoons, they'll build them locally, just like the british would for and RAF order, germans for Luftwaffe order or italians for Aeronautica Militare order...
a rapid source (not always the most acurate, but in this case seems to be quite correct is wikipedia..
"The Eurofighter Typhoon is unique in modern combat aircraft in that there are four separate assembly lines. Each partner company assembles its own national aircraft, but builds the same parts for all aircraft (including exports); Premium AEROTEC (main centre fuselage[41]), EADS CASA (right wing, leading edge slats), BAE Systems (front fuselage (including foreplanes), canopy, dorsal spine, tail fin, inboard flaperons, rear fuselage section) and Leonardo (left wing, outboard flaperons, rear fuselage sections)."
a major reason for the Typhoon not benefiting of economy of scale while being ordered in quite significant numbers (for a european aircraft, that is) was the fact that every partner nation wanted (and got) its own assembly chain... So if spaniards order more Typhoons, they'll build them locally, just like the british would for and RAF order, germans for Luftwaffe order or italians for Aeronautica Militare order...
a rapid source (not always the most acurate, but in this case seems to be quite correct is wikipedia..
"The Eurofighter Typhoon is unique in modern combat aircraft in that there are four separate assembly lines. Each partner company assembles its own national aircraft, but builds the same parts for all aircraft (including exports); Premium AEROTEC (main centre fuselage[41]), EADS CASA (right wing, leading edge slats), BAE Systems (front fuselage (including foreplanes), canopy, dorsal spine, tail fin, inboard flaperons, rear fuselage section) and Leonardo (left wing, outboard flaperons, rear fuselage sections)."
Sure and nothing wrong with a piece of the pie for one's self. Yet, that has to be weighed against the threat and the needs of one's military too!
So, in the case of Spain (and Germany) the Typhoon is no longer "adequate" against many near peer threats. Which, means it no longer benefits either nations military. Nor, the Alliance (NATO) that they're sworn to defend....
New
By: Anonymous
- 10th April 2019 at 01:35Permalink- Edited 10th April 2019 at 01:35
Need I remind some that the NGF won't arrive for at least a good "20" years.
By: halloweene
- 10th April 2019 at 13:11Permalink- Edited 10th April 2019 at 13:12
Wow, you had a look into your crystal ball? Not everyone is LM and delays their programs for 15 years... About relevance of Typhoon, it is spanish problem, and i'm fairly sure they are expecting your expert's opinion.
By: RALL
- 10th April 2019 at 14:51Permalink- Edited 10th April 2019 at 14:53
[QUOTE=Scooter;n3859141]
Sure and nothing wrong with a piece of the pie for one's self. Yet, that has to be weighed against the threat and the needs of one's military too!
So, in the case of Spain (and Germany) the Typhoon is no longer "adequate" against many near peer threats. Which, means it no longer benefits either nations military. Nor, the Alliance (NATO) that they're sworn to defend....
EF is a fabulous airplane and soon all fleet in Spain will be update with Aesa Captor radar + Meteor and other improvements.
But it lacks on stealth, so combination EF+F-35 is perfect on my opinion. Both airplanes are complementary.
Too it is better have 2 diferent types of airplanes because if only have 1 type, and it has some big problem, then all fleet will be on the ground for some time before issue is not resolved. With 2 diferent types, it is very difficult will happen as this.
By: TomcatViP
- 10th April 2019 at 18:20Permalink- Edited 10th April 2019 at 18:25
[QUOTE=TooCool_12f;n3859117]
a major reason for the Typhoon not benefiting of economy of scale while being ordered in quite significant numbers (for a european aircraft, that is) was the fact that every partner nation wanted (and got) its own assembly chain... So if spaniards order more Typhoons, they'll build them locally, just like the british would for and RAF order, germans for Luftwaffe order or italians for Aeronautica Militare order...
a rapid source (not always the most acurate, but in this case seems to be quite correct is wikipedia..
"The Eurofighter Typhoon is unique in modern combat aircraft in that there are four separate assembly lines. Each partner company assembles its own national aircraft, but builds the same parts for all aircraft (including exports); Premium AEROTEC (main centre fuselage[41]), EADS CASA (right wing, leading edge slats), BAE Systems (front fuselage (including foreplanes), canopy, dorsal spine, tail fin, inboard flaperons, rear fuselage section) and Leonardo (left wing, outboard flaperons, rear fuselage sections)."
you know that the F-16 was built on a same model, right? Many assembly or sub-assembly lines were located at partner location. I don't think that the economy of scale has ever been mentioned as being... altered to the point of compromising the program.
The idea is where you source your components, how many of them and at what quality. The assembly line dissemination was only (probably) just one part of a the overall problem. The disaster with Airbus Puma gear boxes is the perfect example (they had two locations at a lower cost but with a horrendous quality discrepancy (I am always baffled that this has not led to any criminal investigation) ).
Wow, you had a look into your crystal ball? Not everyone is LM and delays their programs for 15 years... About relevance of Typhoon, it is spanish problem, and i'm fairly sure they are expecting your expert's opinion.
Sorry, you don't need a crystal ball to predict 20 years to design, develop, test, and field a new fighter. It's actually the norm.
In addition the NGF doesn't even exist in physical form yet. As a matter of fact from all reports no design is even in place at this stage. Just general concepts as they're in the process of recruiting partners for the program.
This means it will be many many years before the first flight. Let alone testing, series production and finally entering service...
As for the Typhoon being a Spanish Problem. Sure but it's also a NATO problem. As Spain is obligated to defend all its members beside itself. Problem with buying more Typhoons. Is while it may help the Spanish Economy. It does very little for the defense of the Alliance. As the type is nearly obsolete and we already have more than enough of them in service.(i.e 4/4.5 Generation).
Actually, I think many are making this into an issue that it is not. As today Spain needs to replace it's Hornets and Harriers. The only real viable option is the F-35A/B. Yet, by time that is complete and the NGF comes on line. The Typhoons will retire and will be replaced by the latter.
This all makes perfect sense when you think about it. As in the next twenty years the Spanish Air Force would be equipped with Typhoons and F-35's. Then the following twenty years by F-35's and NGF's. Which, is the same the UK and Italy are doing....in their case Typhoons and F-35's followed by F-35's and Tempests. Same for US and on and on...
EF is a fabulous airplane and soon all fleet in Spain will be update with Aesa Captor radar + Meteor and other improvements.
But it lacks on stealth, so combination EF+F-35 is perfect on my opinion. Both airplanes are complementary.
Too it is better have 2 diferent types of airplanes because if only have 1 type, and it has some big problem, then all fleet will be on the ground for some time before issue is not resolved. With 2 diferent types, it is very difficult will happen as this.
Yes, upgraded Typhoons with AESA Radars (Captors) combined with New F-35A's to replace the Hornets and F-35B's to replace the Harriers. Then in about twenty years when the Typhoons start to retire. They would be replaced with the NGF's just coming online...
Also, speaking of the F-35's. Maybe the US could offer a mix of New and Used F-35's to aid Spain with the cost. For most of the F-35's needed are for the Spanish Air Force. These could be new F-35A's as the price keeps dropping nicely. Yet, instead of new F-35B's. Which, are much more expensive. Maybe the Spanish Navy could acquire a small number of rebuilt F-35B's from the USMC. Especially, considering the Navy only needs a very small number!
By: RALL
- 12th April 2019 at 14:13Permalink- Edited 12th April 2019 at 18:30
Yes, upgraded Typhoons with AESA Radars (Captors) combined with New F-35A's to replace the Hornets and F-35B's to replace the Harriers. Then in about twenty years when the Typhoons start to retire. They would be replaced with the NGF's just coming online...
Also, speaking of the F-35's. Maybe the US could offer a mix of New and Used F-35's to aid Spain with the cost. For most of the F-35's needed are for the Spanish Air Force. These could be new F-35A's as the price keeps dropping nicely. Yet, instead of new F-35B's. Which, are much more expensive. Maybe the Spanish Navy could acquire a small number of rebuilt F-35B's from the USMC. Especially, considering the Navy only needs a very small number!
Just a thought...
Well, the problem was the expensive european programs. For example, Nh90 helicopter is around 60 millione euros per unit. :very_drunk: And it was not militar decition, because militar wanted Blackhawk. Politicians choose the most expensive solution, How many Sh-60 can buy for 1.400 million euros?:eagerness:
And it is not a joke, it is what Spain will pay for 23 units, more than 1400 million euros. And not only this. A400 program same, very expensive...
Spain is the 4th economy in euro zone. The problem is not the money, the problem is to take bad decitions on the programs which will affect on future. And i told, Spain will get around 30-40 new EF tranche 3 nextly and it will be around 20% expensive than F-35.
it does not matter if you build in Spain EF, because material cost and human cost is not free. You need pay it, the only good think is to create quality employnement around this. For this too to enjoy on next generation fighter...
But, will be a mistake only get EF until 2040. It is a big mistake.
F-35B will come to Armada, but i would like 30-35 units F-35 A for EdA, it would be perfect. And of course Spain can buy it, but will be a political decition, and this is the problem.
Look germany, how ridiculous. They decided do not buy F-35, and now is thinking about get more years the very old Tornados wich will have a very very expensive cost because is the only airplane which can bring tactical nuclear weapon, and EF can not. This is a problem when you have ridiculous politicians taken militar decitions. Some german general was fired for telling germany need buy F-35.:stupid:
Posts: 156
By: RALL - 5th April 2019 at 10:50 Permalink - Edited 5th April 2019 at 11:15
Yes, but if you need to buy 50 EF, then with 35 F-35 is enough for to make same missions. So your unit/cost and total cost will be a lot less on the case of F-35 A. And less pilots are necesary too. Cost of new infraestructures is for all life of the F-35 (30-40 years), and you do not pay already on first month.
Unit cost of EF is around 100 million euros, not less than this sure, for germany many years ago it was 90 million euros, so now will be worst. F-35 A is 89 million dollars on this moment, that is around 80 million euros now.
Per hour operating cost of the F-35 A will be around 25.000 dollars at 2025 american official told, less than F-16. And for EF is similar to this number.
Posts: 156
By: RALL - 5th April 2019 at 10:55 Permalink - Edited 5th April 2019 at 10:56
SCAF program do not have nothing to do with adquisition or not of F-35 A.
SCAF bornt to replace currents EF´s and RAFALE on 2040 decade. We need replacement for around 80 F-18 before 2030 and it is not possible with only 30 or 40 more EF´s.
It is very clear preference from Ejercito del Aire is to have a mixture force with EF and F-35. So, F-35 A is open on this moment. Time will tell if finally version A will come around 2025-2030. But sure F-35B will come.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-us...-idUKKCN1RG2O7 [INDENT]In written testimony submitted to the U.S. House of Representatives and seen by Reuters, Vice Admiral Mathias Winter - the head of the Pentagon’s F-35 office - said that “future potential Foreign Military Sales customers include Singapore, Greece, Romania, Spain and Poland.”[/INDENT]
Posts: 4,168
By: halloweene - 5th April 2019 at 16:54 Permalink
SCAF program is fully relevant. One can adapt Typhoon into SCAF. But F-35 is a closed system.
Posts: 5,905
By: TomcatViP - 5th April 2019 at 20:31 Permalink - Edited 5th April 2019 at 20:31
that sounds funny, you know. The most connected fighter that many air force say revolutionize information sharing would be by you... a closed loop?! :stupid:
Posts: 4,168
By: halloweene - 7th April 2019 at 15:41 Permalink
It revolutionizes information sharin between compatible items. Words are not mine btw, but former NATO SACT.
Posts: 3,259
By: TooCool_12f - 7th April 2019 at 17:08 Permalink
EF is much cheaper for Spain than the F-35 for a very simple reason (besides the training and support infrastructures to put into place): It is built in Spain.. meaning, most of the money spent will remain in Spain and get back into spanish budget through taxes and so on... Buying the F-35 means sending it away, which is pretty much the same for their budget as shredding right there...
By: Anonymous - 8th April 2019 at 01:24 Permalink
So, the Spanish Navy is going to get out of operating Fixed Wing Aircraft from the Juan Carlos I /BPE??? News to me.....:eek:
By: Anonymous - 8th April 2019 at 01:44 Permalink
[QUOTE=TooCool_12f;n3858833]
EF is much cheaper for Spain than the F-35 for a very simple reason (besides the training and support infrastructures to put into place): It is built in Spain.. meaning, most of the money spent will remain in Spain and get back into spanish budget through taxes and so on... Buying the F-35 means sending it away, which is pretty much the same for their budget as shredding right there...[/QUOTE
Please, provide us a source to support that??? I didn't realize Spain share was that large in the EuroFighter Program.
Posts: 4,082
By: Deino - 8th April 2019 at 07:11 Permalink
Ähhm ... are we still in the "franco-german-next-generation-fighter" thread or has this become yet another F-35 vs €F discussion pool? :mad:
Posts: 4,168
By: halloweene - 9th April 2019 at 13:03 Permalink
Apparently a much more impressive model of NGF will be displayed at Le Bourget.
Posts: 3,259
By: TooCool_12f - 9th April 2019 at 22:10 Permalink
[QUOTE=Scooter;n3858885]
a major reason for the Typhoon not benefiting of economy of scale while being ordered in quite significant numbers (for a european aircraft, that is) was the fact that every partner nation wanted (and got) its own assembly chain... So if spaniards order more Typhoons, they'll build them locally, just like the british would for and RAF order, germans for Luftwaffe order or italians for Aeronautica Militare order...
a rapid source (not always the most acurate, but in this case seems to be quite correct is wikipedia..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon#Procurement,_production_and_costs
and precisely::
"The Eurofighter Typhoon is unique in modern combat aircraft in that there are four separate assembly lines. Each partner company assembles its own national aircraft, but builds the same parts for all aircraft (including exports); Premium AEROTEC (main centre fuselage[41]), EADS CASA (right wing, leading edge slats), BAE Systems (front fuselage (including foreplanes), canopy, dorsal spine, tail fin, inboard flaperons, rear fuselage section) and Leonardo (left wing, outboard flaperons, rear fuselage sections)."
By: Anonymous - 10th April 2019 at 01:33 Permalink
[QUOTE=TooCool_12f;n3859117]
Sure and nothing wrong with a piece of the pie for one's self. Yet, that has to be weighed against the threat and the needs of one's military too!
So, in the case of Spain (and Germany) the Typhoon is no longer "adequate" against many near peer threats. Which, means it no longer benefits either nations military. Nor, the Alliance (NATO) that they're sworn to defend....
By: Anonymous - 10th April 2019 at 01:35 Permalink - Edited 10th April 2019 at 01:35
Need I remind some that the NGF won't arrive for at least a good "20" years.
Posts: 4,168
By: halloweene - 10th April 2019 at 13:11 Permalink - Edited 10th April 2019 at 13:12
Wow, you had a look into your crystal ball? Not everyone is LM and delays their programs for 15 years... About relevance of Typhoon, it is spanish problem, and i'm fairly sure they are expecting your expert's opinion.
Posts: 156
By: RALL - 10th April 2019 at 14:51 Permalink - Edited 10th April 2019 at 14:53
[QUOTE=Scooter;n3859141]
EF is a fabulous airplane and soon all fleet in Spain will be update with Aesa Captor radar + Meteor and other improvements.
But it lacks on stealth, so combination EF+F-35 is perfect on my opinion. Both airplanes are complementary.
Too it is better have 2 diferent types of airplanes because if only have 1 type, and it has some big problem, then all fleet will be on the ground for some time before issue is not resolved. With 2 diferent types, it is very difficult will happen as this.
Posts: 5,905
By: TomcatViP - 10th April 2019 at 18:20 Permalink - Edited 10th April 2019 at 18:25
[QUOTE=TooCool_12f;n3859117]
you know that the F-16 was built on a same model, right? Many assembly or sub-assembly lines were located at partner location. I don't think that the economy of scale has ever been mentioned as being... altered to the point of compromising the program.
The idea is where you source your components, how many of them and at what quality. The assembly line dissemination was only (probably) just one part of a the overall problem. The disaster with Airbus Puma gear boxes is the perfect example (they had two locations at a lower cost but with a horrendous quality discrepancy (I am always baffled that this has not led to any criminal investigation) ).
Posts: 4,168
By: halloweene - 10th April 2019 at 18:41 Permalink
There is nothing such as Airbus Puma. Puma was built by aerospatiale and Westland. I never hear you screaming when a Chinook crashes btw.
By: Anonymous - 11th April 2019 at 06:07 Permalink
Sorry, you don't need a crystal ball to predict 20 years to design, develop, test, and field a new fighter. It's actually the norm.
In addition the NGF doesn't even exist in physical form yet. As a matter of fact from all reports no design is even in place at this stage. Just general concepts as they're in the process of recruiting partners for the program.
This means it will be many many years before the first flight. Let alone testing, series production and finally entering service...
As for the Typhoon being a Spanish Problem. Sure but it's also a NATO problem. As Spain is obligated to defend all its members beside itself. Problem with buying more Typhoons. Is while it may help the Spanish Economy. It does very little for the defense of the Alliance. As the type is nearly obsolete and we already have more than enough of them in service.(i.e 4/4.5 Generation).
Actually, I think many are making this into an issue that it is not. As today Spain needs to replace it's Hornets and Harriers. The only real viable option is the F-35A/B. Yet, by time that is complete and the NGF comes on line. The Typhoons will retire and will be replaced by the latter.
This all makes perfect sense when you think about it. As in the next twenty years the Spanish Air Force would be equipped with Typhoons and F-35's. Then the following twenty years by F-35's and NGF's. Which, is the same the UK and Italy are doing....in their case Typhoons and F-35's followed by F-35's and Tempests. Same for US and on and on...
By: Anonymous - 11th April 2019 at 06:17 Permalink
[QUOTE=RALL;n3859253]
Yes, upgraded Typhoons with AESA Radars (Captors) combined with New F-35A's to replace the Hornets and F-35B's to replace the Harriers. Then in about twenty years when the Typhoons start to retire. They would be replaced with the NGF's just coming online...
Also, speaking of the F-35's. Maybe the US could offer a mix of New and Used F-35's to aid Spain with the cost. For most of the F-35's needed are for the Spanish Air Force. These could be new F-35A's as the price keeps dropping nicely. Yet, instead of new F-35B's. Which, are much more expensive. Maybe the Spanish Navy could acquire a small number of rebuilt F-35B's from the USMC. Especially, considering the Navy only needs a very small number!
Just a thought...
Posts: 156
By: RALL - 12th April 2019 at 14:13 Permalink - Edited 12th April 2019 at 18:30
Well, the problem was the expensive european programs. For example, Nh90 helicopter is around 60 millione euros per unit. :very_drunk: And it was not militar decition, because militar wanted Blackhawk. Politicians choose the most expensive solution, How many Sh-60 can buy for 1.400 million euros?:eagerness:
And it is not a joke, it is what Spain will pay for 23 units, more than 1400 million euros. And not only this. A400 program same, very expensive...
Spain is the 4th economy in euro zone. The problem is not the money, the problem is to take bad decitions on the programs which will affect on future. And i told, Spain will get around 30-40 new EF tranche 3 nextly and it will be around 20% expensive than F-35.
it does not matter if you build in Spain EF, because material cost and human cost is not free. You need pay it, the only good think is to create quality employnement around this. For this too to enjoy on next generation fighter...
But, will be a mistake only get EF until 2040. It is a big mistake.
F-35B will come to Armada, but i would like 30-35 units F-35 A for EdA, it would be perfect. And of course Spain can buy it, but will be a political decition, and this is the problem.
Look germany, how ridiculous. They decided do not buy F-35, and now is thinking about get more years the very old Tornados wich will have a very very expensive cost because is the only airplane which can bring tactical nuclear weapon, and EF can not. This is a problem when you have ridiculous politicians taken militar decitions. Some german general was fired for telling germany need buy F-35.:stupid: