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By: 20th July 2004 at 13:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Ference! Good to read from you again! (yes, i got the email, but didn't reply yet because i'm evil/lazy/impossible/left-handed/import-Heerlenaar)
You're not entirely correct with your statement that back in the Soviet days, one Military District was equivalent to a certain Air Army. One District could house more than just one Army, in fact most of them did. This because obviously IA-PVO, FA, DA and V-TA units did not belong to the same Air Army, yet could easily be stationed in the same district.
For example, in the Belarus MD you could find units from the following armies, with the headquarters of those armies:
Messy huh? It gets even better when you include other MDs, and take the breakup of the USSR into consideration as well. For example, the 24VA/DA which we've seen above in the Belarus listing, was to become the command structure of the later Ukraine AF.
The following Air Armies all were based in the Ukraine, so that's in theeCarpathian, Odessa and Kiev MDs:
'Borders' between Air Armies crossed Military District-borders throughout the whole Soviet Union. The Baltic States for example were all part of the Kaliningrad MD, but the V-TA army stationed there also had a regiment in the Leningrad MD, and one of Leningrad's PVO Armies also had interceptor regiments in the Kaliningrad MD. Further East it gets a bit less confusing, simply because there were less Armies and Districts. In Asia, outside of Russia there were only the Turkestan MD (covering Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan), the Central Asian MD (covering Kazakstan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan), and bordering Turkey and Iran was the Causasian MD covering what are now Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaidzhan.
By: 20th July 2004 at 14:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Good ole Sovs
Hi Arthur,
yes, it's been over a year since I last visited this forum. Maybe it's me who is the lazy one. Actually family expansion (another son) robbed me of most of my spare time. Thanks for the info!
Hey, I saw they made you moderator, congrats. I hope AFM's trust isn't misguided :D ;)
Best,
Ference.
By: 20th July 2004 at 14:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Just make sure the boys are to become fine upstanding members of society, rather than planespotters. And me being moderator... you should blame those who voted for me to wield this power, Keymags actually installed a democracy here ;)
I'll try to look for an on-line map of the Military Districts. I have a few in books, but those are hardly scannable. Outside of Russia, only the three MDs in the Ukraine/Moldova are separated independent from borders though. But if you imagine a line straight North from Moldova's northern tip, you will have the Transcarpathian MD to the West of this. From the same point, you pull a line straight to the East right until you meat the Dnepr and then follow the river: this is the Odessa MD, so roughly the south of Ukraine, Moldova and the Crimea. The rest of Ukraine (the entire north and east) is the Kiev MD.
By: 20th July 2004 at 20:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Ference:
Go to www.tank-net.org And look the thread warpact vs nato, there I has posted some OOBs about different Air Armies.
I have OOBs of the Soviet Union, of nearly everything (VVS-FA/VTA/DA, Voyska PVO, Sukhoputnie Voysk, VMF...) If you need something in special, please tell me.
Regards :p
By: 21st July 2004 at 09:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-thanks guys
Thank you Pit for your kind offer!
I have visited the tanknet site only a few days ago, so I've already read your OrBat postings there. Good work!!! :)
The composition (orbat) of the air armies is not my main problem, but I'd like to know more about their roles. Some are obvious, like the 16th VA and 4th VA, who were based on the very frontline of the Cold War, Germany and Poland respectively. But where would the other air armies deploy, say the 17th, the 24th (Poland IIRC), the 5th etcetera? To Poland or maybe the Southern Front? All in case of a theoretical late 80s WW III that is. That's how a map of the Air Army's positions would be helpful. I got the SIPRI 1997 map BTW, but that only shows modern Russia's military districts.
I know that the following were part of the strategic reserve:
· Smolensk Air Army
· Legnica Air Army
· Venitza Air Army
· Irkutsk Air Army
· Moscow Air Army
They could have been deployed anywhere I think.
Best regards,
Ference.
P.S. Pit, I still lack the OrBat for the air armies of the DA, VTA and PVO. Maybe you could supply me with those? Thanks in advance!!! :)
By: 21st July 2004 at 15:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-No prob Ference, tomorrow I will post them here
Have fun
Pit :p
By: 27th July 2004 at 12:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Hi everybody,
I have a few specific questions about the subject, hope someone can help me!!
First about the DA:
Which divisions belonged to which Air Army??
This is what I think, please correct me If I'm wrong:
36 (Moscow) Air army:
-106 HBD (Tu-95)
-79 HBD (Tu-95) (or Irkutsk VA????)
-73 HBD (Tu-95)
-201 HBD (3MS), at Engels
30th (Irkutsk) Air army;
- 31 HBD (Tu-16/22/22M), at Irkutsk
-55 HBD (Tu-16/22K), at Primorski
46th (Smolensk) Air army:
-13 HBD (Tu-160/22M), at Poltava/Priluki
-22 HBD (Tu-22M)
- 326 HBD (Tu-22M3)
- 15 HBD (Tu-22M)
Secondly, a few questions about the PVO:
Which military district did the 4th PVO Air Army belong to (with a base at Danilovo (Samarskaya))?????
The same for the 14th PVO Air army (bases at Omsk, Bratsk, Kupino, Kansk)
Same for 19th PVO air army (bases at Rostov-na Don (MiG-31), Bombora (Su-27), Nasosnaya (MiG-25PDS)?????????
Best regards,
Ference.
P.S. Pit I've found some nice DA and PVO Orbats myself, so I don't need those anymore, but I would be very interested in your VTA Orbat.
By: 27th July 2004 at 13:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Hi Ference:
Terrible sorry for the late of the reply.
I'm not in house (in my city) in this moment and will return by the end of the day, then I can send you that VTA OOB (I must have one, I remind to have Russian, and Soviet one)...
Do you find your PVO OOB in orbat.com?...it have SAM and radio-electronic forces?? :o
Regards
By: 27th July 2004 at 15:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-orbats
Pit,
Indeed, I found the PVO (and DA too BTW) OrBats at orbat.com. Still haven't found a decent VTA OrBat though. :(
Ference.
By: 27th July 2004 at 18:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-30th (Irkutsk) Air army;
- 31 HBD (Tu-16/22/22M), at Irkutsk
-55 HBD (Tu-16/22K), at Primorski
Well, Primorski should actually be Ussuriysk, since that is the name of the airbase. But i think you do have the Army/Division tie-ups correct here.
Secondly, a few questions about the PVO:Which military district did the 4th PVO Air Army belong to (with a base at Danilovo (Samarskaya))?????
That was the Volga MD, now part of the Volga-Ural MD.
The same for the 14th PVO Air army (bases at Omsk, Bratsk, Kupino, Kansk)
Siberian MD, but Bezrechnaya in the same Air Airmy is in the Transbaikal MD.
Same for 19th PVO air army (bases at Rostov-na Don (MiG-31), Bombora (Su-27), Nasosnaya (MiG-25PDS)?????????
Both the North Caucasus MD (that's where Rostov-na-Donu is) and the Caucasus MD (with Bombora in Abkhazia).
By: 27th July 2004 at 20:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Speaking of such things, where the hell is Airtime's Russian Airpower Directory? Are they still having printer problems? PC load letter getting the best of them? :D
Posts: 885
By: Ference - 20th July 2004 at 09:16
Hi everybody,
I have a question for you. The Soviet Union Air forces used to be divided into numbered air forces, e.g. 16th air army (16 VA), 4th air army (4 VA). Later those titles were changed, incorporating the name of the military district it belonged to, e.g. "air army of the Leningrad military district".
Can anyone tell me which numbered air army corresponds to which military district?
Or does anybody have a map showing the locations of air armies and/or military districts in the entire former Soviet union. I have one for current Russia, but not for the other SSRs.
Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
Ference.