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By: 31st August 2004 at 16:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-any pics of it in flight
By: 31st August 2004 at 16:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-it never flew. it never even got off the paper...
By: 31st August 2004 at 19:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Excellent website by Adrian Mann.
http://www.aemann.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.html
Avro 730
By: 31st August 2004 at 19:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-By Josef Gatial
http://www.angelfire.com/sk/gatial/
Avro 730
By: 1st September 2004 at 02:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-More evidence of advanced state of UK aircraft industry in years past.
Unitl the MoD got their grubby little hands on it, and slashed funding in the 60's, which pretty much ended any hope of the UK keeping pace with (or ahead of) American development. There is a really good book on Secret British Fighter programs of the 50's.
By: 31st May 2005 at 18:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Josef Gatial now has images of the P1134 as well, at:
http://www.planespictures.com/index.php?c=1&t=1
The odd thing is; there's nothing else at all on this aircraft anywhere (at least via Google) apart from the above images and this thread. Even the Tony Buttler book, which I'm assuming is the one GDL means, doesn't mention it. You'd have thought with those specs. it would have a higher profile.
By: 2nd June 2005 at 23:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Yeah the Limeys had a lot of designs during the cold war. I fail to see why these designs are an indication of an advanced UK aerospace industry, when they didn't get far at all. It's not as if they were almost ready to put them into production. Most of the designs were cancelled in the very early stages.
One thing is certain at least, and that is that the UK's aerospace industry was far inferior to the aerospace industry of the French!
By: 2nd June 2005 at 23:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I have several things to say to the previous post, TSR-2, the original supersonic harrier (for which prototype engines were built), the V-bombers (must notably Vulcan and Victor Mk2s), Fairy Rotodyne, Bristol Belfast transport plane (bigger than the Hercules), Westland Westminster helicopter, Rolls Royce Olympus engines (powered the concorde) aswell as various other examples, not to mention the knowlednge and research done to produce these desighns.
The fact that they didnt get very far are more of an indication of britains economic and political situation following 6 years of near total war and the adoption of the keynesianist economic model post war which was part of a general lean to the left up til Magaret Thatchers coming to power.
By: 2nd June 2005 at 23:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Sorry the Belfast was built by Shorts, oh yeah and I forgot to mention bloodhound, seacat, sea dart, sea wolf, and sea slug missiles, the Hawk training aircraft (probably one of the worlds most successful training aircraft)
I will admit that the UK aerospace industry went downhill spectacuarly after the 1960s but uptil then it was certainly the most advanced in the world, if not the most advanced.
By: 3rd June 2005 at 15:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I will admit that the UK aerospace industry went downhill spectacuarly after the 1960s but uptil then it was certainly the most advanced in the world, if not the most advanced.
Blackbird? XB-70? AIM-47? And even though you did say aerospace and not aviation, I won't go into the plethora of US space programs in the 1960s.
By: 4th June 2005 at 12:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I meant to say ONE OF, if not the most, sorry :o . And I was reffering more to the comment made that the French aerospace industry was more advanced than the British.
By: 4th June 2005 at 14:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I will admit that the UK aerospace industry went downhill spectacuarly after the 1960s but uptil then it was certainly the most advanced in the world, if not the most advanced.
To join in with Sean: Griffon, Trident, Mirage (including the Balzac and G-series), Alouette. Or Tu-22, original Su-17, AL7F, Mi-6, Tu-95...
So let's not make this into a "my d!ck is longer than his"-contest. When there is nobody to enjoy that extra length, discussing it is a bit moot me thinks. Especially using never-flown paper projects as evidence for an overall quality is totally useless: nobody ever could check if those designs would have lived up to their specs. There were plenty of promising paper projects which in the end failed miserably.
You also have to keep in mind that even though there were a lot of extremely interesting British designs around until the 1960s, a lot of them where the result of completely retarded doctrines. Sure, the TSR.2 would have been an excellent nuclear bomber or recce aircraft, and would have been a wonderful replacement for the F-105 with the USAF or the RA-5C with the USN. But it was a far less practical machine than the Canberra which it was to replace, or the Tornado which in the end took the role intended for the TSR.2 . Likewise, the (in it's day) excellent design of the Lightning didn't come close to it's full potential just because neither the RAF nor politicians really wanted or cared it to. Just face it: if you want to boast about former British engineering glory, then you have to swallow the bitter pill that it was Britain itself which broke the neck of that very same engineering glory.
One thing i have to say is that at least British engine technology has always been outstanding. Remember that in order to make the A-7 live up to it's design qualities, it needed a British engine (TF41 aka Spey) in order to make it work, rather than the absolutely hopeless TF30. But then again, the US was equally happy to go for French engines (J69). Or just never managed to match Soviet gearboxes as found in the Tu-95 or on the Mi-6.
By: 4th June 2005 at 15:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I did admit that it was the British who broke the neck of that engineering glory if you could be bothered to read my first post, nor was I criticising french engineering, in fact I was responding to the claim that the French aerospace industry was MORE advanced than the british up to the sixtys.
By: 4th June 2005 at 15:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-...in fact I was responding to the claim that the French aerospace industry was MORE advanced than the british up to the sixtys.
Well, that is definately something which you can argue about.
They most definately were when it came to ramjet technology, for one. And i can't think of any British equivalent of Sud's work on turbine helicopters either. And the French did actually put supersonic delta wings into service, rather than the fat triangles of the Vulcan or Javelin.
You might try and back up your claim a bit. Unless you prefer to sound like just another empty-headed chestthumper.
By: 4th June 2005 at 16:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I already have, once again try reading post's before replying.
when did the french build the worlds 3rd largest turboprop powered aircraft?
when did the french make a VTOL fighter?
When did the French produce anything in the class of the V bombers?
I am not arguing that British aerospace industry was far superior to that of the french, just that the french was not superior to the british.
Where I will certainly agree with anyone who will say it, is that the modern french aerospace industry is very impressive, in fact everytime I see a Rafale I have to go and lock myself away for a while until the excitement passes!!! I would go as far to say that I would rather see the Rafale on the CVF's than the F-35s they are getting!!!
By: 4th June 2005 at 18:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-:( :diablo: :( :( Just remembered that the french did build a VTOL fighter :( :( but it didnt use thrust vectoring engines like the harrier
By: 4th June 2005 at 20:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-when did the french build the worlds 3rd largest turboprop powered aircraft?
when did the french make a VTOL fighter? [sic]
When did the French produce anything in the class of the V bombers?
When did the British build a ramjet fighter?
When did the British realise that you could put turbine engines in helicopters?
When did the British field an indigenous M2 theatre bomber?
When did the British build an indigenous M2 aircraft capable of more than point defence?
When did the British make a supersonic VTOL fighter?
When did the British make a four-engined STOL transport?
I'm not saying the French aviation industry was superior to the British - i like to think i'm informed enough to know such claims are only useful to fertilise the soil with. All i want to point out is the bigotry and ignorance of your statement that Britain's aviation industry was superior to that of the French.
By: 4th June 2005 at 22:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-That was not the intention of my statement as I have said before, I realy do wish that you would read my posts before calling me ignorant, if you are trying to start some sort of battle, I am not biting, I have said in previous posts that I was not trying to argue that the British aerospace industry was superior to the french, yet you still insult me by calling me an ignorant bigot.
I hope that this is a case of you failing to read and understand my posts and not an attempt at a personal attack.
Posts: 24
By: elider - 31st August 2004 at 16:00
More evidence of advanced state of UK aircraft industry in years past.