Pictures of downed f117, f16... at NATO attack on Yugoslavia (Serbia and Monten.)1999

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20 years 3 months

Posts: 95

Stay with the facts. Not make-believes from one site, or one "i've heard"-thing.

Member for

19 years 4 months

Posts: 29

what about I have seen thing ?
I know that our americans friends do not wish to tell evrything so ...
but the truth is not on there's side not even on our's nor the betwen
so do not waste any more word's to it, it is not woth it, but like someone said it PROVE IT!!!!!, so if You do not have any proof (material, written, pics...) not propaganda, but for information Yugoslavia isn't big so if someoone is damage he or she could pass the border and what then so we all have our word against theres, as I recall America did not even whan't to approve f177 lost till pictures go all over the world ... so if I could close this tread I would but i can not :D

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Posts: 7,877

The "been there, seen it" phrase means exactly NOTHING unless you explain exactly WHAt you have seen.

Khrushchev - you say you were there to witness it. Witnessed what? You saw with your own eyes the shootdown of all the aircraft you mentioned and also happened to identify them (hats of if you can tell a German Tornado from a British one in the dark of night) - if so, then please tell us more. We're veeeeery curious...

Member for

19 years 9 months

Posts: 12,109

some of these stories are somewhat true and it is only now that the full facts are emerging.

remember MSS (baghdad bob) and how he was saying all along that they have shot down american bombers from the sky like the .........

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

well the USAF made a unsuccesfull coverup to hide the facts from the world and it is only now that the facts are emerging.

http://www.kotatv.com/localnews/story.asp?ID=20034

well it is quite evident that these bombers are being brought back to cover up the losses...isn this enough evidence..

:D :D :D :D :

Member for

19 years 4 months

Posts: 2

I was there to witness the. I went to several crash sites, Predator UAV, F-16, F-117A, and A-10A.
Ok I am sory if it isn't USAF who operates Apache... Is it US Navy, or US Amry? What a big difference.
I can't tell a difference from German or British Tornado in the skies, but according to some verified facts we can tell that it was a German one.
The British Harrier I mentioned above managed to land in Bosnia being heavily damaged.
About the F-15 I am not talking of the one from Venik's site, but of one which fell down on approach to some airport in Albania, being perviously hit by a SAM.

Who wants to believe it, believe it, who doesn't forget it, but facts will remain facts forever.

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24 years 2 months

Posts: 7,877

Allright, if you've seen the wreckage: any pictures? Serial numbers? Exact locations of the wrecks? The burden of evidence is with you...

Member for

19 years 9 months

Posts: 12,109

I was there to witness the. I went to several crash sites, Predator UAV, F-16, F-117A, and A-10A.
Ok I am sory if it isn't USAF who operates Apache... Is it US Navy, or US Amry? What a big difference.
I can't tell a difference from German or British Tornado in the skies, but according to some verified facts we can tell that it was a German one.
The British Harrier I mentioned above managed to land in Bosnia being heavily damaged.
About the F-15 I am not talking of the one from Venik's site, but of one which fell down on approach to some airport in Albania, being perviously hit by a SAM.

Who wants to believe it, believe it, who doesn't forget it, but facts will remain facts forever .

interesting how u talk about facts without stating or reffering us to a single one.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 724

I was there to witness the. I went to several crash sites, Predator UAV, F-16, F-117A, and A-10A.
Ok I am sory if it isn't USAF who operates Apache... Is it US Navy, or US Amry? What a big difference.
I can't tell a difference from German or British Tornado in the skies, but according to some verified facts we can tell that it was a German one.
The British Harrier I mentioned above managed to land in Bosnia being heavily damaged.
About the F-15 I am not talking of the one from Venik's site, but of one which fell down on approach to some airport in Albania, being perviously hit by a SAM.

Who wants to believe it, believe it, who doesn't forget it, but facts will remain facts forever.


"I was there to witness the. I went to several crash sites, Predator UAV, F-16, F-117A, and A-10A."

So you went to A-10A crash site. What did you find there? The starboard engine nacelle is now in the Belgrade Military Museum. Inside the starboard engine nacelle is a construction plate. It was videoed by the Serb military and news agencies. If you were there you would have noted the construction number. The A-10 in question, 81-0967, was hit by a SAM and shedded its engine nacelle. The aircraft in question recovered to Petrovec, Macedonia and was patched up before recovering back to its operating base in Italy. The aircraft in question still serves today.

"Ok I am sory if it isn't USAF who operates Apache... Is it US Navy, or US Amry? What a big difference.
I can't tell a difference from German or British Tornado in the skies, but according to some verified facts we can tell that it was a German one."

And where did this Luftwaffe Tornado come down?

"The British Harrier I mentioned above managed to land in Bosnia being heavily damaged."

No Harrier was written off from the inventory due to any combat damage.

"About the F-15 I am not talking of the one from Venik's site, but of one which fell down on approach to some airport in Albania, being perviously hit by a SAM."

Absolute non-sense. No F-15 was written off from the inventory.

What you have described is aircraft suffering minor combat damage. Several NATO aircraft suffered minor combat damage during the course of the conflict. None of them were written off from the inventories nor suffered such damage for the aircrew to eject.

Some of the following links might be dead.

A number of NATO manned aircraft took combat damage during the conflict.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/May1999/t05281999_t0528asd.html

'Q: You mentioned several aircraft had been hit during this operation. Do
you have a rough number of times this has occurred?

Major General Wald: I think it's probably been about five to ten or
something like that. I'm not sure. Don't quote me on that, because there may
have been some that took a little nick... (Laughter) Okay, quote me on this.
About five to ten. How's that? Less than ten, more than five.

Q: And two have been downed. Two were down or...

Major General Wald: Two have crashed. The F-16 and the F-117. The F-117 we already told you we're not going to talk about why. The F-16 was an engine problem. We're not sure if it was because of AAA or a SAM ingesting into the engine, or it was just an engine failure.

Q: (inaudible)

Major General Wald: There was an A-10 that landed that had been shot with a SAM that hit one of his engines, a hand-held SAM.'

The following are the pieces that were blown off an A-10 that took combat
damage over Kosovo on the 2nd May 1999:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/a10downphotos01.htm

The Serbs filmed the pieces and claimed that the aircraft had been shot
down: They could show nothing else but these pieces. No ejection seat, no cockpit nose section, no remains of the main fuselage, no captured pilot.

This is the photograph of the aircraft after it was repaired in Macedonia:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img002/a10a-81-0967repaired02.jpg

Another A-10 took combat damage over Kosovo on the 11th May 1999. The SAM ripped off an antenna from the underside of the fuselage:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img003/a-10-81-0984-may-11-1999-01.jpg

Further evidence of combat damage:

Lt. Col. Stephan J. Laushine who led both rescue missions into Serbia to
rescue the pilots of the two aircraft shot down during Operation Allied
Force (F-117A, serial 82-806 and F-16CG, serial 88-0550) revealed during a
TV interview that all three choppers (MH-53 and MH-60s) were hit by small
arms fire during the mission. Two took hits to the rotors and another took a
hit in the aft cabin section. The MH-60G 'Pave Hawk' that picked up the F-16
pilot sustained significant damage as revealed by the following:

http://www.hurlburt.af.mil/commando/archives/000211/000211-001.html

16th Special Operations Wing Public Affairs

'The MH-60G dispatched to pick up the downed pilot sustained significant
damage from small arms fire'

Again, none of those aircraft/helos were written off from the inventory. No aircrew died in combat and no aircrew ejected due to combat damage received.

TJ

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 724

what about I have seen thing ?
I know that our americans friends do not wish to tell evrything so ...
but the truth is not on there's side not even on our's nor the betwen
so do not waste any more word's to it, it is not woth it, but like someone said it PROVE IT!!!!!, so if You do not have any proof (material, written, pics...) not propaganda, but for information Yugoslavia isn't big so if someoone is damage he or she could pass the border and what then so we all have our word against theres, as I recall America did not even whan't to approve f177 lost till pictures go all over the world ... so if I could close this tread I would but i can not :D

The operation to rescue the pilot was underway despite the pictures being broadcast. Until the pilot was rescued and safely out of Serbia there was no confirmation.

TJ

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 724

I was there to witness the. I went to several crash sites, Predator UAV, F-16, F-117A, and A-10A.
Ok I am sory if it isn't USAF who operates Apache... Is it US Navy, or US Amry? What a big difference.
I can't tell a difference from German or British Tornado in the skies, but according to some verified facts we can tell that it was a German one.
The British Harrier I mentioned above managed to land in Bosnia being heavily damaged.
About the F-15 I am not talking of the one from Venik's site, but of one which fell down on approach to some airport in Albania, being perviously hit by a SAM.

Who wants to believe it, believe it, who doesn't forget it, but facts will remain facts forever.

Mwolf and Khrushchev,

Your postings so far are no better than that coming from the Yugoslav Government officials during the conflict. Let me remind you of their ramblings on the subject of NATO losses. This is exactly how you are coming across in your posts on this forum:

" The world press more often and more openly writes about enormous
NATOlosses in their complete failure called "air strikes campaign". As the
Day when the aggressor will have to give an accounting and inform the
Families of their killed soldiers and pilots is inevitably approaching, the
Strategy experts of this alliance are trying to resort to some cheap tricks.
However, the facts which reveals not only the world media, but the Russian
intelligence too, are more than painful and tormenting. The Greek
daily "Atinaiki", whose writing NATO never impugned, wrote ten days ago
about at least 88 killed alliance soldiers and 32 downed aircraft. Other
European newspapers also wrote about these and similar losses of the aggressor.

The clandestine role of the 424th American hospital in Thesalonika is
secret no more, and neither is the fact that metallic coffins are coming every
day into the British base in Cyprus. These and similar "unpleasant"
information, the alliance has been trying to conceal these days in a
very awkward way. In the morning news, Radio Toronto recently reported the
crash of a NATO aircraft 'in Israel' (!?), when the pilot and '22
parachuters' were killed. Allegedly, those were amateur parachuters who had come from America to train for some sort of a championship. The news would have been swallowed if only 72 hours earlier the news had not leaked on the
crash of a helicopter 'in Japan' (three killed), then another crash of F-15 over
'Puerto Rico' (one killed), then new helicopter accidents 'in Kentucky' (eleven killed) and Arizona (12 killed). The only connection to Kosovo was made by an American TV reporter when she was talking about the 'Kentucky' accident, but it was only said that they had been 'training' for their September schedule in this Serbian province.

However, even the laymen know that these fabricated reports are only the attempts for creating such a situation, suitable for sending messages to the hundreds of families about "tragic losses during military drills". Even the tragic-comic comments have been heard that CNN and other spokesmen of the alliance could launch the news that "three newly-trained pilots" have died. NATO knows very well that four F-4 aircraft of the German Airforce did not come back from this monstrous mission over Yugoslavia. According to the information of the Russian Ministry of Defence, one two-men crew died when the aircraft exploded in the air, while other three crews were found and captured by the Yugoslav Army. In the air combat on March 26, seven kilometers to the South of Pancevo, a Yugoslav MIG-29 downed an American F-16C, whereas another four bombers of the same type were downed by the Yugoslav anti-aircraft defence. Two Canadian F/A-18C were shot down and
destroyed together with their pilots 11 kilometers to the South of Ruma, and
because of that the American northern neighbour sent additional aircraft to
Italy on March 30. Yugoslav MIG-21 managed to blow up an American two-seater F-15E on March 27, which the BBC reported the same day.

At least one "Tornado IDS" was downed between March 24 and 26. This two-seater was completely blown up in the sky on the South of Pancevo. Another German "Tornado" was downed on March 29, but the pilot managed to eject himself. According to Yugoslav and Russian sources, one British "Harrier" was down on March 30, and Another one on April 17. A large group of multi-purpose fighter aircraft found themselves in the cross fire of the light anti-aircraft artillery and had to leave the Yugoslav sky with lots of damage. On April 15, agencies reported about the sad end of so-called "Warthog", American specialized fighter aircraft for anti-tank fighting A-10A. The greatest success of the Yugoslav Army is definitely, demystification of the carefully kept secret of the "Stealth" technology. The invisible fighter F-117A was shot down into the plough-lands of the village of Budjanovci, hit by the earth-to-air missile. Soon after that, Radio Zagreb reported the forced landing of another Stealth aircraft at the Zagreb airport. According to Reuters, and some other media houses, there is a real possibility that even a third "invisible" aircraft faced a similar sad destiny. On April 6, an
aircraft which bombarded the oil refinery in Novi Sad that night, was shot down above Fruska Gora mountain early in the morning. NATO did not have better luck in its helicopter missions, in which a large number of commandos lost their lives. One HH60-G helicopter with two pilots and 12 commandos came down between Bijeljina and Tuzla on March 28, and only a day later, the
same destiny hit another two helicopters of similar type. According to
Russian sources, a NATO aircraft and two CH-53/53E helicopters were shot down at about 200 kilometers to the South-West from Belgrade, on April 2, with 58 CREW members, who are all believed to have died in the accident.

The Yugoslav air defence shot down a considerable number of aircraft, not
identified yet, so that the list of the dead aggressor's soldiers is
not final yet. In any case, it is becoming bigger and bigger every day in
this aggression on Yugoslavia. Therefore, it no wonder there is a panicky
fear of NATO from facing the families of the dead soldiers and ridiculous
attempts to hide the truth. Belgrade, 01/06/1999 (MPA)

The Deputy Secretary of Information of the Serb government, Radmila Visic, claimed that Yugoslavia has shot down more than 190 NATO aircrafts since March 24, when the Alliance launched air raids against the country, in her interview at the Macedonian Press Agency. Mrs Visic accused NATO of concealing the actual number of its losses during the two-month war in Yugoslavia and reassured that when the hostilities are over, the Alliance will be forced to informfirst of all the mothers of the dead pilots, who still don't know the truth. "Of course Americans and the rest of the NATO allies do not admit that they lost 190 aircrafts and they will not admit it in any of their
briefings. However, even in the Internet, in NATO's web-site there are data that confirm this number and verify the claims of the Yugoslav army", said
Mrs. Visic. "I am certain that when this is all over, then the International public opinion and especially the American one will face the Vietnam
syndrome and then the mothers of the pilots of the shot down planes
will be informed that their sons where killed in the raids against Yugoslavia", she stressed. When asked about why the Yugoslav authorities do not present
photos or videos that confirm their allegations of having downed 190
planes, the Serb minister noted that even NATO itself has admitted that
Yugoslavia has a remarkable strategy. "It is part of our tactics, not to show
them. I, like a good soldier, will not give more information on this. However,
the fact that NATO has announced that it will bring another 1.200 planes
against a country with small air force, doesn't that mean something to you?".

TJ

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 374

The A-10 in question, 81-0967, was hit by a SAM and shedded its engine nacelle.

This is that 81-0967.

Attachments

Member for

20 years 3 months

Posts: 95

Yes, now I remember... The belgian air force lost at least 4 upgraded F-16AM's and 2 A-109 helicopters, all shot down. They all exploded in mid-air and were shredded to pieces not bigger than a postal stamp. Of course the pieces were thrown over a vaste area full of mountains and woods. They never admited it in fear of bad publicity about the poor state of our Air Force. Do you believe that?

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20 years 3 months

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Me neither !

Member for

20 years 1 month

Posts: 992

I think moderators should close this thread.I mean it is becoming too funny and sad.I mean if you want to make fun out of us(i stronly distance myself from any ridicilous comments about those numerous aircraft shot down)go on,i just dont feel like getting laughed at because of some individuals.

Thank you!

Member for

19 years 9 months

Posts: 12,109

i agree this has to be regulated..seems like some people wont take no for an answer and tend to spread their dogma on others even if others are not interested sometimes i wonder if it would be beneficial just to make a seperate thread for such indiviguals (i restrain from naming) where they can knock themselves out.

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case closed.

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Posts: 7,877

DJ, i think i'm speaking not only on my behalf but also that of TJ when i say that our mocking of the Venik-esque claims is purely aimed at people making those silly claims.

There is absolutely no need for you, or anyone else with a Serbian background, to feel offended by this. Besides, standing strong for 78 days when it was thought that 3 days of 'shock-and-awe'-ing (not that this catchy phrase existed back then, Jamie Shea's spindoctoring was far more subtle than fancy neologisms) would do the job is nothing to be ashamed of.

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20 years 3 months

Posts: 95

That was my point too.

Member for

19 years 4 months

Posts: 29

ok now
that does it
As I remeber i did not write any loses and shot downs, only I wrote were that I think that someone in future will tell that there were some other planes which was downed in not near future, so do not put that was not my words
so, that was it. read my post and you should see it for yourself
but someone get injured even by these words so where is smoke there is fire perhaps. I know that evryone are over protected for theres country.
If You want to know where i been during the 1999 i served military at airport, I could tell that they were precise during bombing our empty bildings, and miss runway by a little, but still were operational, in next several day's our planes going up with bomb loads, returning empty....
I saw even mistakes from nato planes as they mised or be fuled by hiting fake targets, rockets were shot down daily, I saw that with my one eye's.
I even survive some by chance (becouse we just go from one place to other), what were hit several hours later. We had loses, we had reports of smoking planes etc. Someone will ask what's airport name where I were, I will say central Serbia . Who knows what airport i meant he knows. We even hide 1 mig 29 during the war all over landscape. That was propaganda story but I did not believe it becouse i did not trust that goverment, but What i saw during fighting aircrafts I believe that might be some planes shot down or heavy damage. SO I think case is closed at first I only wanted to share some picture with this comynity becouse they can not see it with there on eye's in person, and only I saw was that someone do not aprove it, and were afended by that. That was war time will tell who was wright and who was not (do not post about it, this is not the place for it). So I am interested as civilinan from military people othere for how long did you planed to bomb Yugoslavia (1 week, month, Year) I realy wanted to know.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 724

ok now
that does it
As I remeber i did not write any loses and shot downs, only I wrote were that I think that someone in future will tell that there were some other planes which was downed in not near future, so do not put that was not my words
so, that was it. read my post and you should see it for yourself
but someone get injured even by these words so where is smoke there is fire perhaps. I know that evryone are over protected for theres country.
If You want to know where i been during the 1999 i served military at airport, I could tell that they were precise during bombing our empty bildings, and miss runway by a little, but still were operational, in next several day's our planes going up with bomb loads, returning empty....
I saw even mistakes from nato planes as they mised or be fuled by hiting fake targets, rockets were shot down daily, I saw that with my one eye's.
I even survive some by chance (becouse we just go from one place to other), what were hit several hours later. We had loses, we had reports of smoking planes etc. Someone will ask what's airport name where I were, I will say central Serbia . Who knows what airport i meant he knows. We even hide 1 mig 29 during the war all over landscape. That was propaganda story but I did not believe it becouse i did not trust that goverment, but What i saw during fighting aircrafts I believe that might be some planes shot down or heavy damage. SO I think case is closed at first I only wanted to share some picture with this comynity becouse they can not see it with there on eye's in person, and only I saw was that someone do not aprove it, and were afended by that. That was war time will tell who was wright and who was not (do not post about it, this is not the place for it). So I am interested as civilinan from military people othere for how long did you planed to bomb Yugoslavia (1 week, month, Year) I realy wanted to know.

Mwolf,

You are not thinking logically here. Earlier you stated

"Lets stay with Facts, You see that mig were kiled near Tuzla, but did You heard something about airstrike from Yugoslavia to that location in Bosnia during 1999 ..."

There was no Yugoslav airstrike against Tuzla airbase / Camp Eagle. Just the same as there was no airstrike against Rinas, Albania.

the following 127th lae pilots were awarded Bravery Medals and promoted
to higher ranks:

Major Nebojsa Nikolic
Major Slobodan Peric
Major Predrag Milutinovic
Major Iljo Arizanov

The following 127 lae pilots were killed in combat:

Kapetan I klase Zoran Radosavljevic
Pukovnik Milenko Pavlovic, commander of 204. Fighter Regiment.

If like you stated an air strike took place on Tuzla the why is there no unit or pilot citation in regards to your claimed raid? This is a simple question that requires an answer from yourself.

Mwolf, you mentioned a MiG-29 movement in your last post. Are you aware that 11 MiG-29s were lost to all causes during the conflict? You might not be aware, but at the end of 1999 the Yugoslavs rejoined the Dayton Agreement and Vienna Document and admitted their losses suffered during the conflict. The total number of Yugoslav combat aircraft lost during the conflict was 50 airframes. Since rejoining Yugoslavia has hosted several verification inspections. Of note on the first inspection during 2000 was the 127th operating the 4 remaining Fulcrum As and the sole Fulcrum B. To make up the squadron to full strength the 127th was operating Fishbed alongside the remaining Fulcrums.

TJ