Pictures of downed f117, f16... at NATO attack on Yugoslavia (Serbia and Monten.)1999

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20 years 3 months

Posts: 1,180

Serbia - only country in the world with a "stealth" plane featurued in a museum exibition :D

Yes exactly and USAF might even have changed the paint used on them and other stuffs after all Russians are very much there

not exactly :p

http://home.att.net/~janjeff/wpafbpic2.htm


how abt in the - to be assembled state - :p

I think he means only country with a "stealth" plane in parts :dev2:

thats also very correct :D

Prove it.

Without using the following: www.aeronautics.ru


can anyone prove anything the other way round w/o using what NATO and US had to say?

Now I await the arrival of Comrade Stalin to put all the capitalist runningdogski's in their place.

and ur thought abt that coz of?

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 724

ok now
that does it
As I remeber i did not write any loses and shot downs, only I wrote were that I think that someone in future will tell that there were some other planes which was downed in not near future, so do not put that was not my words
so, that was it. read my post and you should see it for yourself
but someone get injured even by these words so where is smoke there is fire perhaps. I know that evryone are over protected for theres country.
If You want to know where i been during the 1999 i served military at airport, I could tell that they were precise during bombing our empty bildings, and miss runway by a little, but still were operational, in next several day's our planes going up with bomb loads, returning empty....
I saw even mistakes from nato planes as they mised or be fuled by hiting fake targets, rockets were shot down daily, I saw that with my one eye's.
I even survive some by chance (becouse we just go from one place to other), what were hit several hours later. We had loses, we had reports of smoking planes etc. Someone will ask what's airport name where I were, I will say central Serbia . Who knows what airport i meant he knows. We even hide 1 mig 29 during the war all over landscape. That was propaganda story but I did not believe it becouse i did not trust that goverment, but What i saw during fighting aircrafts I believe that might be some planes shot down or heavy damage. SO I think case is closed at first I only wanted to share some picture with this comynity becouse they can not see it with there on eye's in person, and only I saw was that someone do not aprove it, and were afended by that. That was war time will tell who was wright and who was not (do not post about it, this is not the place for it). So I am interested as civilinan from military people othere for how long did you planed to bomb Yugoslavia (1 week, month, Year) I realy wanted to know.

Those images that you posted are well known ever since the Yugoslav Aeronautical Museum put on display the NATO displays. The images have been available through Venik's website and the Yu Model Club for many years. Along with the images from the Yugoslav Aeronautical museum the Kalemegdan museum images of NATO wreckage have also been available on-line.

To be totally fair to these guys at the Yugoslav Aviation Museum I have
never seen or heard them fall into the Belgrade government propaganda mode.
One references that I have was the Sky News interview of Drasko Kostic during 2000 (named as a curator). Drasko Kostic informed the reporter (Tim Marshall) that there are parts of 25 cruise missiles here along with 8 pilot-less aircraft, or drones, and the 2 jets that were shot down. So far 4000 people have been to visit in just 3 weeks." Another individual also
named as a curator, Cedomir Janjic, announced that more destroyed NATO
weapons will be soon added to the collection in a new wing of the museum
dedicated to the airstrikes. Details were released that the museum held over
1500 fragment of NATO's military hardware. In a UK aviation magazine a
museum member gave details as to how search parties were organised to
collect these fragments. Not one mention was made to any pieces of manned
aircraft being collected or recovered other that the two USAF aircraft shot
down. On the other hand the Belgrade propaganda machine was in full swing
after a government official visit to the Yugoslav Aviation Museum.

In an interview to the Associated Press Yugoslavia's Minister for Science and
Development, Cedomir Mirkovic, said "It is truly amazing how many aircraft
and drones were downed with the relatively modest and primitive equipment. "
Mirkovic refutes Western claims that Yugoslav air defense downed only the
two planes. "We shall prove we have more," he said, without elaborating.

Yes, Mr Mirkovic we are all still waiting!

Mwolf, what you witnessed during the conflict did not result in any manned aircraft other that 82-806 and 88-0550 being destroyed or written off. These were the only two airframes lost to enemy action. Several aircraft took nicks and scratches and others combat-jettisoned their external fuel tanks while evading SAMs, but no aircrew ejected as a result. Hard for you to believe, but these are the cold hard facts. The same went for thousands of missions over the No Fly Zones of Northern and Southern Iraq despite countless claims of shoot downs by the Iraqi forces over the years.

TJ

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20 years 3 months

Posts: 1,180

some of these stories are somewhat true and it is only now that the full facts are emerging.

remember MSS (baghdad bob) and how he was saying all along that they have shot down american bombers from the sky like the .........

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

well the USAF made a unsuccesfull coverup to hide the facts from the world and it is only now that the facts are emerging.

http://www.kotatv.com/localnews/story.asp?ID=20034

well it is quite evident that these bombers are being brought back to cover up the losses...isn this enough evidence..

:D :D :D :D :


hey h abt the Tomahawk which have suoper-duper navigation systems drifting 100 of miles away from the designated target, flying over where it did not even need to go and finally going to Baghdad and hitting reports?? :p :p

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Posts: 29

ok now, here we go again :rolleyes:
regards tuzla here is tread
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34208
please explain

I did not say it was but please how could You explain that pictures
bosnian serbs did not have mig 29

I mentioned mig 29 movment if You wanted to know where it were hidden I could tell You some locations.
but I realy, realy been there, and I know what I was talking about for that mig 29
TJ If You realy are what you say you are then you know about fake mig 29 at batajnica airport and why do you thing it was so dificult to hide mig 29 when there was many places to hide it by daily bases, here is picture of it and url.
http://dragan.freeservers.com/agresija/m18.htm

regards

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Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 724

ok now, here we go again :rolleyes:
regards tuzla here is tread
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34208
please explain

I did not say it was but please how could You explain that pictures
bosnian serbs did not have mig 29

I mentioned mig 29 movment if You wanted to know where it were hidden I could tell You some locations.
but I realy, realy been there, and I know what I was talking about for that mig 29
TJ If You realy are what you say you are then you know about fake mig 29 at batajnica airport and why do you thing it was so dificult to hide mig 29 when there was many places to hide it by daily bases, here is picture of it and url.
http://dragan.freeservers.com/agresija/m18.htm

regards

Mwolf wrote:

"I did not say it was but please how could You explain that pictures
bosnian serbs did not have mig 29"

Mwolf have you never read the interview with Lt Col Peric, the surviving pilot of the engagement on the 26th March 1999?

Both aircraft were armed with R-27s and R-73s and carried no air-to-ground ordnance. Neither were they escorting any strike force. At this point I'll let the Peric interview stand:

"Lieutenant colonel Slobodan Peric, Mig-29 pilot, tells for the first time
how he was shot down three days after the aggression in a conflict with NATO aviation, while his comrade Major Zoran Radisavljeviæ was killed

We Ascended to 7000 meters from low level fast flight, passed through the
clouds, where a NATO swarm awaited us

Friday, March 26th 1999. The third day of NATOs aggression.
The mighty engines of two -29s thundered in the late afternoon on the
(military) runway of the Batajnica airfield. Two hawks from "The Knights"
squadron took off: Lieutenant Colonel Slobodan Periæ Buca (39) and Major
Zoran Radisavljeviæ (34). They bravely went towards the black NATO phantoms. There were, it is said, ten to one.

The resolute pilot Periæ did not "live through" his second conflict with
the aggressors. His Mig-29 was hit, shortly after takeoff over the river
Drina. The experienced knight, fortunately, survived!
But he will never celebrate March 26th as his second birthday. On this day,
every year, he will light candles on the Le¹æe cemetery. A few minutes
before he was shot down, "The Knights" squadron lost its first pilot. His
comrade, Major Zoran Radosavljeviæ, went to heaven (Periæ and Radosavljeviæ were awarded the Medal for Bravery).

Lieutenant Colonel slobodan Periæ talks about the drama above the river
Drina, exclusively for "Svedok", after 359 days.
Two of our colleagues who were at alert the whole day needed replacing. I
said: "I'll go. Who'll go with me?" At that moment Zoran received a call
from his sister Sne¾ana, with a mobile phone, who told him that Lieutenant
Colonel Iljo Arizanov is alive! We didn't have any information about him for
two days. We was shot down. Zoran said: "I'll go with you. I haven't flown
in a while. It's better that I fly by day than by night". He hadn't flown in
a Mig for several months because of an English course, and almost a year has
gone by since he last flew by night.
We got the alert signal at 16:40, through his mobile telephone. We took off
a few minutes before 17:00. We were ordered to fly north, across Banat. I
decided that we should fly extremely low, around 15-20 meters, so we'll be
harder to notice. Zoran followed me. When we were over Zrenjanin, the
guidance officer ordered: "Turn south!".
In the vicinity of Fru¹ka Gora, at about 200 meters, I noticed that my
radar was malfunctioning. My aircraft was unusable in combat.I couldn't fire
any missiles with a longer range than the IC-missiles. I depended on Zoran.
I told him to watch carefully and to tell me if he sees anything.
I asked the communications officer where"blue" (NATO airplane) is, which he
told us is running west from Valjevo. He gave us a distance of 14
kilometers. There were several fighters around us, which we couldn't
visually see at that distance. By what was happening, I conclude that
Zoran's radar was malfunctioning as well.
"Let's go up!" I gave the order to Zoran.
From low level flight we ascended to 7000 meters at 950 kph, and passed
through the clouds. The guidance officer told us that "blue" is in from of
us, at the same distance. I told him that we'll cross the "line" (border) if
we continue to chase it. We needed 50-60 kilometers to reach him, but we
were around 30 kilometers from the "line". We didn't get an answer!
As we neared the border, Zoran radioed me that the intruder is on our right
side. I thought he had it on radar. I ordered: "Excellent, pass, launch, I'm
behind you!" He said : "No, at spo!" That meant that we were illuminated,
that the NATO fighters have detected us. I commanded: "Break left!". We lost
them, and then resumed our old course.
The guidance officer radioed us: "It looks like someone from that group
went after you!"
I saw four white trails as they headed towards us. I thought they were
"Tomahawks" and planned to shoot them down with IC missiles. However, the
white trail soon disappeared.

(TJ note: Both F-15 pilots combat-jettisoned their external fuel tanks. The streaming venting fuel from the tanks was probably what Major Peric witnessed. The F-15s were up at approx 20,000ft at this point. )

I knew they had fired missiles on us. I ordered: "Run, missiles!".
He replied: "I'm running for the clouds!". Those were the last words I
heard. I made an anti-missile maneuver, turned the plane on its back, turned left, then right. The first missile missed me, but the second one hit my right
engine, in the hind part of the Mig. I attempted to make a break for our
territory, but the stick didn't react. My Mig started to lose altitude. Air
started streaming into the cracked cockpit. I hung by the belts in the
plane. I was at around 7000 meters. I pulled the eject handle. I fell
through the clouds so long that I froze!
When I was at around 4000 meters I saw where I was. I recognized my
birthplace, Loznica, Ugljevik, the lake... I didn't know where I was going
to land. I was afraid that the Muslims will capture me.I saw the burning
plane hit the ground and the explosion that followed. Below me- oak woods.
What if I get stuck in a tree? Some 50 meters from the ground, something
turned me for 180 degrees, towards our territory. I hit the ground with my
102 kilos, which is what I weighted then. I go the wind knocked out of me,
but luckily didn't get hurt. (Periæ landed near the Serb village of Donja
Krèmina, in the Republic of Srpska, while the plane fell into a minefield on
the Muslim side of the hill, behind the village Laza).
I discarded my chute, and started uphill, with my helmet still on, towards
our territory. I was around 10 kilometers from the river Drina. I wanted to
swim across it. But, two groups of armed civilians approached me. Luckily, I
didn't make a break for the woods, where the Muslims waited. I was chased by
the Serbs and the "Turks"; both thought that I was an American!
I avoided the first group of civilians. I couldn't do so with the second,
which contained 15-20 peasants. They were very close. They walked with some
20 meter gaps between them straight at me. if I started to run, they
would've cut me down. They all had "kalashnikovs".
I decided to call out to them and yell; "Hello boys!"
They all stopped. Three or four children were with them, that ran towards
me. They started to yell: "Stop, he'll kill you all!"
"I said: "don't be afraid, I don't kill children!"
The bravest one approached me and asked for some identification. I didn't
bring them. The VJ marking on my flight-suit don't help. he asks: "Who are
you?"
What am I supposed to say!? I don't know if they're Serbs or Muslims!
"I'm one of us!" I say
"Who us?" he asks
"A Serb!" I reply
Somebody from the group says: "See the aggressor, SOB, he knows Serbian!
"The main man" asks: "What have you got in your pockets?"
I take out my gun, and he says: "Yes, our gun, CZ-99!"
The other one finds 200-300 dinars in my pocket and yells: "He is one of
us, the SOB. If he were an American, he'd have more money!" I proposed that
we go to the nearest house, so I can make a phonecall to convince them of my
identity. I was afraid that apaches" will come and pick me up. They agreed.
I didn't want to call my wife Vera in Belgrade right away. I gave them a
number of a relative across Drina, but they seemed to mix up the digits. A
medical orderly from the next village took the call. I know the man. After
much dragging, I told them who I was.
They started to apologize, to offer me food and drink. I refused
everything. I asked for transportation so I could leave as soon as possible.
I called my wife in Belgrade: "Listen Vera, I was up, now I'm down. I'm
alive and well, near to my birthplace, on the other side of the "line". I
wanted her to call my squadron and tell them I'm alive.
They gave me a tight worker's outfit, put me into a car and drove me. After
a kilometer or two, the police came by.
"Where is the pilot?" they asked
"Here he is, this one!" they point at me.
"What kind of a pilot is he?"
"One of ours, Serbian!" my rescuers reply
The policemen say: "Mother of..., it'd be better if we hadn't found him",
and leave. They all thought that they caught an American.
Soon they transferred me to another car. Guys from Bjeljina took me over.
They waited for the night to fall, for two hours they led me around the
village and showed me to their uncles, aunts... and then at the Bjeljina
bridge handed me over to "state" RS. They took me to Raèa.
I called my wife again and told her to tell where I am. Soon a general
called me and asked: "Did you do anything smart?". I replied that I didn't
fire any missiles, and he retorted: "Sit there and keep quiet!"
Time went by. When the policemen in Raèa saw that my back was hurting they
called our "Securityman" in Sremska Mitrovica, but couldn't reach him. They
got the duty officer, and he says to them: "Don't we have a vehicle for
something like this?"
I was brought to Batajnica by the Batajnica police. Nobody asked me
anything. I told what had happened. Soon General Ljubi¹a Velièkoviæ came,
greeted me and said: "You were lucky, but Zoran Radosavljeviæ wasn't!"
That's when I found out that my Pavo, as we used to call him, was killed.
My heart hurt! What am I to say to his mother, sister, girlfriend?! It
seemed that Zoran sensed the tragedy. That day, while we drove to the unite
he said: "See Buco, you've left something behind you, you have two children.
Now I'm sorry that I didn't marry, that I have no children. I should have
married Tanja, so at least something should remain to her."

Captitioned texts:

Grandpa killed by a German
I'm form Raðevina, near Loznica. I grew all over the ex-SFRJ, but grew up
and matured in Dalmatia. I've worked at Batajnica since 1983. My ancestors
were hearty. There would be a lot more Periæs if there weren't two world
wars. I don't have a single ancestor that, during the first world war, died
of natural causes. All of the 5 brothers died. My grandpa was killed in
1941. Some say he was in the Partisans, others in the Chetniks. But he
didn't wear a kokarda, or a star! he was killed by a german!

Pay 300 DEM (German marks)
I opened up a private shop, which brings better money than my pilot's pay.
Lieutenant Colonel, the pilot of a supersonic fighter makes around 300 DEM
in dinars, of course. At the time of the aggression, our pay was around 200
DEM. I have two children, daughter Maja and son Luka. he was born on Saint
LUka, and my grandpa was named so. I'm supposed to get a three-room
apartment, but I got a Two-room one. But I solved my habitation question. I
bought the apartment next to mine and expanded! In these hard times I can
float, because I am, as they say, resourceful. I always had the support of
my Vera. It means a lot to me!"

TJ

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24 years 2 months

Posts: 724

This is part 2 of the picture interview that Lt. Col Peric gave. Part 1 is missing from my files.

TJ

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Heyy that Mig-29 by the house, where was that taken?

It really doesnt surprise me that these Mig-29s were shot down at all, they just had about nothing functioning due to the arms embargo for some 8 years. We even had to cannibalize 1-2 for spare parts. I don't think you can in ANY way blame Russian hardware for pretty much anything, 1960s SAMs were handled very well, but if we had a few S-300s or something, we'd have given NATO aircraft a run for their money. 1960s hardware just wont work very well in the 1990s.

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20 years 1 month

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Hey TJ,do you have that newspaper article in the original size?If it is too big you can send it to my email!

THanks a lot!

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19 years 4 months

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ok You explaind the remains of mig 29 in Bosnia perhaps.But i know it already so nothing new for me.
I asked for expalin and i got it. so ok. if You do not have anything else.

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20 years 3 months

Posts: 95

Mwolf, do YOU have anything else? Any more proofs? More explanations about the multiple claims? I mean, I'm really interested in more info on the apparent shoot-downs of the Harrier and Tornado. Weird that no spotter in the world saw their disappearence from the inventory (and believe me: some spotters go really deep into their hobby).

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When even FRY pilots are disproving these delusions, you have to ask what is wrong with some people. Is anti-Western or anti-NATO hatred that strong in some places in Eastern Europe? Or are people just that easily swayed by propaganda that they have to stick with it or admit they were wrong?

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20 years 3 months

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When even FRY pilots are disproving these delusions, you have to ask what is wrong with some people. Is anti-Western or anti-NATO hatred that strong in some places in Eastern Europe? Or are people just that easily swayed by propaganda that they have to stick with it or admit they were wrong?

I totally agree...

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Hey TJ,do you have that newspaper article in the original size?If it is too big you can send it to my email!

THanks a lot!

You can find Part 2 on the following website. Part 1 link is dead - sorry about that.

http://website.lineone.net/~tommyjo/

TJ

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24 years 2 months

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If anyone wants a laugh then visit the followng:

http://www.warinfo.org.yu/natodown.html

This was one of Venik's original webpages. The one with the F-4s shot down and the MiG-29s in Bosnia not Yugoslav but German/US!

TJ

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20 years 2 months

Posts: 245

If anyone wants an even bigger laugh then visit the following:

http://www.afa.org/magazine/July2000/0700kosovo.asp

And see how NATO claims that it destroyed 120 tanks, 220 armored personnel carriers, and 450 artillery pieces. The article even claims that the Serbs made an elaborate attempt to hide all the evidence of the hundreds destroyed tanks by repairing them before inspectors had a chance to asses teh damage (I wonder how they did that when some of the factories which built the M-84 tanks are located in Croatia and Slovenia).

I guess when some amateur aircraft enthusiast like Venik makes bogus claims, it's a real hoot. But when NATO spokesmen make equally bogus claims, no one notices.

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I guess when some amateur aircraft enthusiast like Venik makes bogus claims, it's a real hoot. But when NATO spokesmen make equally bogus claims, no one notices.

"Evans's source for the 13 tanks can be traced to Serbia's 3rd Army commander, Lt. Gen. Nebojsa Pavkovic, who made the claim on June 16. But, as Clark pointed out in his Sept. 16 press conference, Pavkovic also claimed that Yugoslav air defense units shot down 47 NATO airplanes and four helicopters."

There went that Newsweek article's credibility. You were saying?

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When even FRY pilots are disproving these delusions, you have to ask what is wrong with some people. Is anti-Western or anti-NATO hatred that strong in some places in Eastern Europe? Or are people just that easily swayed by propaganda that they have to stick with it or admit they were wrong?

In this case, Sean, smells like some misplaced macho Serbian pride after the pictures of the downed Fulcrum were posted.

You're right, of course, when people are proved wrong they should stop digging even deeper holes to climb out of.

I think TJ has shown pretty incredible patience in explaining what he has. The cold, hard fact of the matter is that there aren't any "extra" NATO aircraft shot down over any of the former Yugoslavia. End of story.

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As I recall we had this discussion on the old Flanker 2 website,with some clown claiming he'd seen a German Phantom come down here,a B-2 crew arrested there and so forth. Going from his (Rabid) claims,by the end of it all I think NATO's offensive air arm must have suffered a 300% loss rate or there about's,it wasn't even funny when you think of the fragile mental state the guy must have been in at the time

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If anyone wants an even bigger laugh then visit the following:

http://www.afa.org/magazine/July2000/0700kosovo.asp

And see how NATO claims that it destroyed 120 tanks, 220 armored personnel carriers, and 450 artillery pieces. The article even claims that the Serbs made an elaborate attempt to hide all the evidence of the hundreds destroyed tanks by repairing them before inspectors had a chance to asses teh damage (I wonder how they did that when some of the factories which built the M-84 tanks are located in Croatia and Slovenia).

I guess when some amateur aircraft enthusiast like Venik makes bogus claims, it's a real hoot. But when NATO spokesmen make equally bogus claims, no one notices.


Totally agreed .

But I also am sure no one wud ever be able to prove the other way round abt having not lost what Veniks says coz what they have is what NATO and US provides ..... and many expects the guys who participated in campaign to let the truth out???..... well the embedded reporting got the exposure only last tear but it always has been there for the last 50 years ..... anyway good Laugh!

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20 years 2 months

Posts: 245

There went that Newsweek article's credibility. You were saying?

Right, if a Serb claims it, it automatically must be untrue, because only NATO tells the truth. Look up the numbers of M-84's declared at Dayton after Allied Force (verified by inspectors), and compare it with the number they had prior to Allied Force. You'll notice a difference of 13 (or thereabouts), not 120, proving that Pavkovic's assessment is true.

But I also am sure no one wud ever be able to prove the other way round abt having not lost what Veniks says coz what they have is what NATO and US provides ..... and many expects the guys who participated in campaign to let the truth out???..... well the embedded reporting got the exposure only last tear but it always has been there for the last 50 years ..... anyway good Laugh!

But if more planes were lost, that would mean that: 1) The pilots who died happened to have no family who wondered what happened to them, which is very unlikely 2) The planes were destroyed into a million bits so that there was no wreckage, which is very unlikely, or the wreckage went down in the sea, again unlikely, and 3) Plane spotters did not notice a plane not returning to an airbase or the plane was somehow replaced before the spotters noticed it, again very unlikely. I think we have to agree that the chance of all three of these cases being true is very very low.