Pictures of downed f117, f16... at NATO attack on Yugoslavia (Serbia and Monten.)1999

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:)
That is what someone does in case of war exactly. Just to survive the critical moment first.
Do you remember the condition of those two MiG-29s shot down? ;)

You could not know what is the problem when all the time there was some malfuction and they as I know were more or less the same
so the condition of aircraft general were very, very, low during the lack of money for spare parts :mad:
they had to rip it off for them self :mad:
So basicly they all were only for museum :(
only what could fly couldn't be used for any serios dog fight
that is like you sen bunch of people with tanks against people with broken sticks

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You could not know what is the problem when all the time there was some malfuction and they as I know were more or less the same
so the condition of aircraft general were very, very, low during the lack of money for spare parts :mad:
they had to rip it off for them self :mad:
So basicly they all were only for museum :(
only what could fly couldn't be used for any serios dog fight
that is like you sen bunch of people with tanks against people with broken sticks

:)
Exactly and who did that war-crime against own people and faithfull soldiers? ;)

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SOC: I know the claim comes from a Serb general, but it has been verified by inspectors. The Serbs had ~250 M-84's prior to Allied Force. They declared ~230 after rejoining the Dayton accords, and they've been counted by the inspectors. Therefore it is impossible that they lost more than ~20. Is there any part of this you don't understand?

TJ: Your list makes NATO's campaign look more impressive than it really was because you are not allowing for the consideration that most of those "losses" were never combat capable in teh first place. For example, out of those 50 airplanes, how many do you think were actually in good condition? I would be willing to bet more than half of them were old relics like Mig-21F's delivered way back in the 1960's or something even older than that, and were not even flyable and were purposely placed out in the open to divert attention away from more important targets. Should those be counted as losses? A loss is when a capable piece of equipment is rendered incapable. If it was never capable in the first place, it does not deserve to be counted as a loss. NATO destroyed a lot of really old junk that was worth less than the missiles that destroyed it, but the amount of useful targets they destroyed were considerably lower.

What do you mean at all? :confused:
IISS 1989-1990 gives 1635 MBTs for Yugoslavia. In a civil war the oldest tank still running can change the balance of power in those low scale fights.
421 cbt ac and ~200 armed hel.
Even those have had been at 100% readiness, nothing had changed really. ;)

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:)
Exactly and who did that war-crime against own people and faithfull soldiers? ;)

he is now at HAG :cool: I do not want to say his Name, becouse ....that is waste of words.
:dev2:

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TJ: Do you maintain that 50 combat-capable aircraft were destroyed? Because if you think that then you need to do a lot more research. Out of the Mig-29's alone, only 9 out of 16 were flyable. The case with the older aircraft was even worse.

The definition combat-capable is a term laid out and agreed by all signatories in both the Vienna Document and Dayton Accord. In the case of Yugoslavia of course the embargo affected the inventory and its combat effectiveness. Regardless of the terms used the aircraft were combat declared and in their inventory as such.. An official lifting of the embargo/sanctions would have allowed those unservicable aircraft to regain their combat effectiveness. The last exchange of information was in January 1999 with the Yugoslavs declaring 152 combat-capable When they rejoined post conflict the declaration was 102 combat declared aircraft. So, regardless of your definitions all signatories, including the Yugoslavs, recognised that those aircraft not fully serviceable could be returned to flying status. That is the defintion of 'combat-capable'. Thus the Yugoslavs lost 50 officially combat-capable aircraft out of their declared combat capable inventory.

Those individuals who gave interviews regarding losses also new the score when it came to 'combat-capable' aircraft in the inventory:

In interviews during 2001 Yugoslav air force Col. Radovan Rakovic stated:

"All our airports on the ground suffered great damage," Rakovic said. The Yugoslav air force, he said, lost about 30 percent of its combat equipment and 40 percent of its combat systems."

In regards to Yugoslav Air Force losses Gen Pavkovic revealed:

"Pavkovic believes the Yugoslav military was successful overall because it suffered relatively few casualties and managed to hold on to many of its weapons systems. The lone exception, he said, was the Yugoslav air force, which "suffered considerable losses."

TJ

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TJ: You seem to have a gift for making people read through very long posts that don't really say anything useful or answer the questions asked.

The Yugoslavs could have declared a million combat capable aircraft, the fact is most of them were old relics, ie Mig-21F's, or J-21's or something like that. They might have remained officially in service with the AF and thus would show up on a list of the country's combat capable aircraft, but they definitely were not used for combat in reality. They were PURPOSELY placed out in the open because their destruction was not considered important.

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TJ: You seem to have a gift for making people read through very long posts that don't really say anything useful or answer the questions asked.

The Yugoslavs could have declared a million combat capable aircraft, the fact is most of them were old relics, ie Mig-21F's, or J-21's or something like that. They might have remained officially in service with the AF and thus would show up on a list of the country's combat capable aircraft, but they definitely were not used for combat in reality. They were PURPOSELY placed out in the open because their destruction was not considered important.

:D :D :D
So you will have no problem to explain us the deeper sense to keep such fighters in service. Most fighters of an airforce kept as future decoys and risc a war against NATO. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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most of them were used as decoys to save few remaining that could fly

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most of them were used as decoys to save few remaining that could fly

It changed nothing. The single hope was to win enough time. Maybe the public opinion against war had forced a stop of NATO. Vulnerability of NATO, when it comes to losses, colateral damages to innocent civilians and so on.
The same idea was/is behind "SAM-10s" for Yugoslavia. The backside of that idea is/was, the number of losses (lifes and material) would have been higher but the outcome the same. Does someone feel better really, such scenario in mind? :mad:
Brno 2004 showed "obsolete" but reworked Orao and Galeb from former Yugoslavia. ;)

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Those links are funny. Are there still any F-117s left ??

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Aww, come on Seahawk! You must remember the Polizei at Spangdahlem, trying their best to frustrate our counting F-117s flying out on a mission, and those coming back ;)

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TJ: You seem to have a gift for making people read through very long posts that don't really say anything useful or answer the questions asked.

The Yugoslavs could have declared a million combat capable aircraft, the fact is most of them were old relics, ie Mig-21F's, or J-21's or something like that. They might have remained officially in service with the AF and thus would show up on a list of the country's combat capable aircraft, but they definitely were not used for combat in reality. They were PURPOSELY placed out in the open because their destruction was not considered important.

Sigh Billy!
There you go harping on about MiG-21Fs. The Yugoslavs only declared their bis Fishbeds in the accord/document. None of the retired airframes are part of this declaration of combat capable airframes. The destruction of those bis airframes resulted in the 83rd Regiment disbanding. There was not enough room in the bunkers at Slatina to take all the aircraft. This forced the Yugoslavs to hide L/N out in the surrounding areas. Unfortunately they were detected by reconnaissance assets in the process of camouflaging them in their hiding positions. Take in the losses of the declared MiG-29 fleet and the losses of the Super Galeb/Galeb at Podgorica and a very small number of J-22s then there you have the 50 declared combat aircraft destroyed. The Yugoslavs were not counting or declaring any of those retired Fishbeds. Neither were they counting any retired helicopters when they declared their 11 combat capable helicopters destroyed. That is why the interviews talk about the air force suffering "substantial losses".

Again to make it easy on you. You do the arithmetic.

Take the single seat MiG-29s declared and lost as being 10.
The number of MiG-21bis lost as being 24.

(Already you have 34 airframes lost.)

Take into consideration the Super Galebs/J-21s/J-22s lost and the number reaches the 50 declared by the Yugoslavs.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? That is why the Yugoslav military in their interviews post conflict talk of "substantial losses" in regards to the air force.

TJ

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Aww, come on Seahawk! You must remember the Polizei at Spangdahlem, trying their best to frustrate our counting F-117s flying out on a mission, and those coming back ;)

Yes especially all those films they took away from my camera :p

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Yes especially all those films they took away from my camera :p

Realy? :confused:

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No, If you went directly to the fence the german police would come and ask you to leave. However with Spangdahlem situated on a hill, you could and can see the traffic from kms away.

those pics are taken 12.08.2004. in aviation musem at Belgrade airport
if you are interested there is many pitctures to see from that day all you have to do is to go to the link shown at the bottom of my post
there is not only pitctures of nato loses there is many more so enjoy ;)
go to the galery ... after entering the site ...

http://www.geocities.com/jkrv_102nd_yu_sqn

what is the fighter that looks like yak and messerschmitt cross? it has a bubble type canopy and is in yugoslavian markings. is it an avia b135? it looks very nice indeed:) i like the guns in front of the cockpit, what size are they, look like fofty calibre ones. also is the fairing on the left side of the engine the oil cooler? bit like a 109 had in the desert. also what engine size does this lovely bird have? id guess at fourteen hundered. any info is greatly appreciated as this is a new fighter type ive found of piston engined planes for me:) very much made my day. yes like you all im passionate about airplanes :) :) :)

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19 years 4 months

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crash video

ok me again with new interesting video
I know tihs tread is old but this video belongs here and i would like it to share it with all of you

f-117 crash site

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24 years 2 months

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ok me again with new interesting video
I know tihs tread is old but this video belongs here and i would like it to share it with all of you

f-117 crash site

Where have you been? This video has been around on the web and other media since 1999!

TJ

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19 years 4 months

Posts: 29

well I have it since 1999
but it come to me that some people did not saw it, so I put it again for people to see it.

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19 years 11 months

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Hi All,

What amaze me out watching the video is how much was left after the crash.

Heck some gum and bailing wire she's good to go :diablo:

RER