" Brazil is ready for a war "

Profile picture for user F5M

Member for

15 years 5 months

Posts: 137

The sentence came from a french attaché ( dont know the exact word for "adido" in english :o ) during Cruzex 2004 , a multi-nation exercise being performed in Brazil ( France , Argentine , Venezuela and some watchers ) . And he also stated that brazilian airforce and the french one has the same training level . More info about Cruzex come here : www.cruzex.aer.mil.br/

The article : http://www.defesanet.com.br/rv/cruzex04/paquet/

And translator for those who may need : http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr

Original post

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 1,317

I would like that latin America had a common air defence system, but i doubt Brazil is ready for a war with truely powerful nations, even if it can face Venezuela or Peru as the americans did with the Iraki air force, i bet the training is good but still the military sophistiation is low in respect it`s fighter fleet and military supply it is still far from China`s or India`s capability

the best we do should in latin America is buy Brazilan made jets such as the AMX-1 and R-99s, Mexican Built Mi-8s and Argentina`s IA-63 Pampa and if Brazil can, Su-35s made in Brazil and make a joint NATO style air Force begining in South America and later including Mexico and Central america :D

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 181

What war is Brazil ready for?

The cold war is over, Lula isn't likely to join a US led expeditionary warfare in arabic countries and the war on drugs will do just fine without Su-35's. So I say again, what war is Brazil ready for?

Or are Brazil about to become yet another country that wants stuff to boast about (example: carriers) like so many other asian countries? That would be sad, because military spending should be equal to ones needs since there are far better ways to spend money in Brazil at the moment (ie Favelas).

regards,
Castor

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 1,317

What war is Brazil ready for?

The cold war is over, Lula isn't likely to join a US led expeditionary warfare in arabic countries and the war on drugs will do just fine without Su-35's. So I say again, what war is Brazil ready for?

Or are Brazil about to become yet another country that wants stuff to boast about (example: carriers) like so many other asian countries? That would be sad, because military spending should be equal to ones needs since there are far better ways to spend money in Brazil at the moment (ie Favelas).

regards,
Castor

the reason is purely technical however the most debate issue would be how to repel a US invasion in South America as China and India have achieved with the US a Jungle shild and Jungle storm could happen

Member for

16 years 4 months

Posts: 2,264

wherever there is a power vacuum, external forces will always try to grab resources and impose rules.

Brazil has huge and lucrative resources than can serve your people well, its upto *you* to develop AND defend that. the other option is to be a US lapdog and
lose certain aspects of your sovereignty.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 1,404

Indian

Tell us all about your idea of what being a lapdog of the U.S. is.

Sauron

Profile picture for user F5M

Member for

15 years 5 months

Posts: 137

I would like that latin America had a common air defence system, but i doubt Brazil is ready for a war with truely powerful nations, even if it can face Venezuela or Peru as the americans did with the Iraki air force, i bet the training is good but still the military sophistiation is low in respect it`s fighter fleet and military supply it is still far from China`s or India`s capability

the best we do should in latin America is buy Brazilan made jets such as the AMX-1 and R-99s, Mexican Built Mi-8s and Argentina`s IA-63 Pampa and if Brazil can, Su-35s made in Brazil and make a joint NATO style air Force begining in South America and later including Mexico and Central america :D

I agree , maybe just in the LA theater we would have a chance . Againt a US ( or equivalent country ) we would have to us guerilla tactics to have a minimun chance . And I agree also with somekind of LA Nato and also integrating South Africa and India as they are already in the G3 .

Member for

16 years

Posts: 1,180

I think they meant , that Brazalian AF has trained well enough that they can face any war , particulary any unforseen one thrust upon them.

Profile picture for user hallo84

Member for

15 years 1 month

Posts: 832

Indian

Tell us all about your idea of what being a lapdog of the U.S. is.

Sauron

US lapdog??? i'm sure he means the British and the Isrealis...

What they do??? well they do what Mr Blair do. i hope you know what i mean :D

Member for

15 years 2 months

Posts: 101

What war is Brazil ready for?

Overextended US seeks coalition allies for regime change in Venezuela, and $8 billion of "aid" rejected by Turkey in 2002 is on the table.

-SK

Member for

15 years 1 month

Posts: 251

Given Brazil's location, seems like the only potential 'big' enemy would be the U.S. Unless maybe they're thinking of taking the Falklands from the Brits to outflank Argentina in their rivalry to dominate the vital south atlantic region. That would be an interesting little war.

Otherwise, unless they join the U.S. in trying to manage the arabs, which European or Asian power is going to want to fight the Brazilians?

Profile picture for user Charlie Echo

Member for

16 years 1 month

Posts: 249

That was a diplomatic statement from a Frech Commander to his Brazilian hosts. Pretty overemphasized. Brazil is not ready, which is not a surprise. No war for a long time ago and ahead.

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 1,317

That was a diplomatic statement from a Frech Commander to his Brazilian hosts. Pretty overemphasized. Brazil is not ready, which is not a surprise. No war for a long time ago and ahead.

Brazil has a really big military budget, according to some close to India`s and among the World`s 15 biggest military budgets
However lots of it is spent in development but not too much in purchases.
Brazil won`t fight any war in latin America because brazil wants to be the leader in the Latin American integration or at least in South america.
it`s equipment is good but not comparable to those of India or China and far from those of the US, Russia or Europe.
In the latin americna contest a long war is out of the question some border skirmishes well Brazil can defeat perhaps any of it`s south american neighbours but it won`t be easy and the must likely it won`t fight any war soon.
There is not an ams race in latin America since the only nation that has an economy capable of rivaling Brazil which is the Mexico`s has no intention of competing militarily with Brazil, and Brazil won`t fight a war with the US and win it and the only way of avoiding an US invasion is having nukes as a deterrement.
But Brazl as the US are not going to fight any war since both are allies and know it is throughtout Diplomacy and not with war the only way to solve disagreements.
Canada is out of the Question nd Argentina now is an ally of Brazil.
Profile picture for user Charlie Echo

Member for

16 years 1 month

Posts: 249

Having a big budget doesn't mean the country has even a fair military capability. That's the case of Brazil and other SA countries: lots of spending with personnel, fairly good training, but lots of conscripts and awfully obsolete hardware. There could be lots of improvement if the same amount of money was spent in a correct manner.

As a matter of fact, IMHO the Brazilians should see the fact of not being pushed into any weapons race as a good thing. But the military have to lose lots and lots of fat.

Profile picture for user F5M

Member for

15 years 5 months

Posts: 137

Sure some of its statement was diplomatic but I dont doubt FAB has good training comparable to France ( an important NATO member ) since we had amazing victories using AMX or F5 ( not yet upgraded ) in simulated battle agains more modern hardware form other countries ( F16's and M2000 to be more precise ) . And good training is more important at my view to be "ready for a war" than good hardware since its very comon to see F5 pilots at Top Gun school beats F15 F16s , the last ones piloted by low experienced pilots . And yes Brazil has a huge military budget specially if you compare it to our neighbours but around 80% of it goes to wages and things like that ,( I dont think other forces around the world spends on personnal as much as we do but Im not sure ) , but fortunelty our budget is 50% of what other countries in South America as a whole spends in military budgets .

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 1,317

Sure some of its statement was diplomatic but I dont doubt FAB has good training comparable to France ( an important NATO member ) since we had amazing victories using AMX or F5 ( not yet upgraded ) in simulated battle agains more modern hardware form other countries ( F16's and M2000 to be more precise ) . And good training is more important at my view to be "ready for a war" than good hardware since its very comon to see F5 pilots at Top Gun school beats F15 F16s , the last ones piloted by low experienced pilots . And yes Brazil has a huge military budget specially if you compare it to our neighbours but around 80% of it goes to wages and things like that ,( I dont think other forces around the world spends on personnal as much as we do but Im not sure ) , but fortunelty our budget is 50% of what other countries in South America as a whole spends in military budgets .

I feel we are not looking the whole picture, Brazil has the ninth largest economy in GDP in PPP, despite in Dollars it would be the 13th and Mexico woul be on top of Brazil, in GDP PPP is the 9th.
In military terms Brazil spends as much as Israel and has the 13th largest military budget in the world and it is of USD $10.7 billion dollars only Bellow the US that has a military budget of USD $399 billion dollars and twelve othe nations such as Russia that spends USD $67 billion dollars; China that spends USD $47 billion dollars; Japan that spends USD $47 billion dollars; England that spends USD $38 billion dollars, France that spends USD $30 billion dollars and India that spends USD $16 billion dollars.
In the Latin American context it would be the largest and the most sophisticated in terms of domestic equipment, in fact Brazil has the most advanced arms industry in LA and a respectable position in terms of domestic equipment in the world.
i think the whole article only said Brazil`s equipment is well handle in terms of mantainance and handling.
Attachments
Profile picture for user F5M

Member for

15 years 5 months

Posts: 137

Interesting I though indians wasted much more . There spending level is very low compared to China . Flogger's numbers are welcome . In fact I think numbers are allways necessary for a good debate . :)

Profile picture for user hallo84

Member for

15 years 1 month

Posts: 832

Interesting I though indians wasted much more . There spending level is very low compared to China . Flogger's numbers are welcome . In fact I think numbers are allways necessary for a good debate . :)

No india got less in numbers, china not only want quality but also in mass volumes and fast!
that's why india finally got it's MKI's while china got 3 batch of MKKs way earlier!

China has massive R&D projects while india has considerably smaller developement plans. India are more willing to buy final products while china is more interested in the technology transfer which cost more.

Not to mention the difference in personel and their wage difference!

Profile picture for user Nitin_V

Member for

15 years 1 month

Posts: 386

Nonsense. India has more access to technology since it does not have arms embargoes slapped on it. Every deal signed by the Indian Govt in recent years has technology transfer built into it from day 1.

Besides, India's is getting far more tech transfer in the MKI than China got via the MKK.
Whether it be hand held thermal imagers, purchased in the thousands or even Missiles.

Member for

16 years 3 months

Posts: 1,837

One of the thing I have learn in the french army, "never believe nice and sweet declarations during internationals exercices unless you've got a clear proof"

Profile picture for user GoldenDragon

Member for

16 years 3 months

Posts: 3,854

Interesting I though indians wasted much more . There spending level is very low compared to China . Flogger's numbers are welcome . In fact I think numbers are allways necessary for a good debate . :)

As far as aviation is concerned, Brazil through Embraer is actually ahead of almost everyone in Asia. In my view, until the ARJ-21 gets done and is selling well to Chinese airlines, no one in Asia can claim any lead over Brazil.

The Brazil air force being relatively less powerful in comparision to the larger Asian states is because of choice not because of ability. Watch the CBERS program. This is one step from being a mass-produced item that will make satellite affordable for the third world.

There is actually a very major trip by the Chinese president Hu through Brazil, Argentina and Chile right now.

Note the aerospace contract with Argentina. The article doesn't elaborate but I wonder what it might be.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/117554/1/.html


China to invest US$20b in Argentina

Related News »
• Argentina seeks investment riches from China
• Chinese leader aims to boost trade in Argentine visit
• President Hu's South American tour raises hopes of Chinese riches
more>>

BUENOS AIRES : China's President Hu Jintao and Argentine President Nestor Kirchner signed cooperation agreements as Chinese companies pledged investments of 20 billion US dollars.

Chinese companies would develop railway and aerospace projects and send tourists to the South American country on holiday packages.

. . .