By: bring_it_on
- 27th February 2019 at 00:08Permalink- Edited 27th February 2019 at 00:09
Yeah Israel would very much like to integrate its weapons as soon as possible and around the time that they complete their deliveries. With UAI coming in block - 4 and a lot more weapon programs likely to be launched in FY20-22 given the change in investment focus they will be busy integrating weapons, virtually non stop from now through the entire next decade and eventually once the fleet reaches a critical mass of around 300-400 aircraft with the USAF a lot of these new starts will begin to have the F-35 as the platform slated for initial integration.
By: SpudmanWP
- 27th February 2019 at 00:10Permalink
If Israel wants to integrate their weapons without anyone else knowing, the easiest way to do it create their own UAI drivers for their own weapons. With the upcoming ALIS filters they can can even keep it out of ALIS.
By: bring_it_on
- 27th February 2019 at 00:13Permalink- Edited 27th February 2019 at 00:14
I don't think it is as much as them keeping it a secret as it is that it will not be reported as extensively by the program because it is likely to be an FMS/DCS as opposed to a partner plan, so it could very likely be that LM is allowed to work on some of the Israeli stuff commercially in partnership with their local OEM's. Didn't they have a couple of aircraft that they were to kit for testing some of their local stuff?
By: TomcatViP
- 27th February 2019 at 21:01Permalink- Edited 27th February 2019 at 21:32
If an adversary ever sees the F-35, I want them to have something show up on all their screen savers that says, “We’re here” — not “I’m here,” but “We’re here.” If they ever do see an F-35, which is highly unlikely, it will never be alone. We’re going be there in space — we’ve been there for a while; we’re going to be there with high altitude, ISR; we’re going be there with the B-21. It’s about to wreak havoc, and there’s nothing they can do about it. And there’s one weapon system that we’ve designed to quarterback, to call the audibles inside enemy airspace, and that’s the F-35. It fuses information, it fuses data. For me, we are not going to integrate the F-35 into the joint team, we are going to integrate the penetrating joint team into the F-35.
[...]
The weapons system that we designed to call the audibles — because nothing in war goes exactly as planned — is the F-35. So how we train the force in the T-X [trainer jet] to be able to get to that level of operation understanding is where we’re going. And it’s my experience that in the career of an aviator, what makes the difference between a really good pilot and a great pilot is not stick and run; it’s mental. Who can make the leap that can take all that’s going on and build this three-dimensional model in your head to understand what’s going on miles away from you, in a way that you can never see? We’ve made that easier by bringing these displays together to fuse the information.
U.S. weapons maker Northrop Grumman Corp reported a delivered 500th Center Fuselage for the F-35 Lightning II fighter aircraft.
“We deliver an F-35 center fuselage every 36 hours and I am very proud to say we have made all our deliveries since the inception of the program,” said Frank Carus, vice president and F-35 program manager, Northrop Grumman. “Our dedicated team works closely with the customer and suppliers to improve quality and affordability in support of the warfighter.”
According to a news release put out by Northrop Grumman Corp, designated AU-18, the 500th F-35 center fuselage is for a conventional takeoff and landing variant for the Royal Australian Air Force. Northrop Grumman began production on the AU-18 center fuselage in June 2018 and completed work on Feb. 21. Northrop Grumman has been producing center fuselages for all three F-35 variants since May 2004.
In the meanwhile, ALIS is even poorer than expected. Pplare extracting data 'prbably under uncoded txt to bring it to .csv and than maunally input them in excel.... Good news is they were ble to automatize that complex manoeuver...
By: bring_it_on
- 28th February 2019 at 11:13Permalink- Edited 28th February 2019 at 12:20
Gonna be VERY expensive when they will have to pay for 1000 violations of Thales Visionix patent...
When will they have to pay this? Do you have a data and amount or is this something your secret source told you to not mention?
On the CPFH it is based on the total fleet and the creation and execution of all the depots and other facilities associated with bedding down 1700+ fighters in the USAF alone. Legacy aircraft are relying on decades old infrastructure that has been built up over the decades to sustain the fleet while the F-35 fleet is just getting started while adding significant number of aircraft each year. The USAF and Congress can make it quicker by investing more resources on MILCON and standing up more organic depot capacity faster but they are likely trying to balance a bunch of other spending priorities at the same time as well.
Also, not everything is about France or a French aerospace supplier which you seem to bring into threads that have nothing to do with the Rafale or French aircraft.
New
Posts: 550
By: St. John
- 28th February 2019 at 12:13Permalink
Patent violations for a helmet that Rafale doesn't have?
Also, not everything is about France or a French aerospace supplier which you seem to bring into threads that have nothing to do with the Rafale or French aircraft.
By: halloweene
- 28th February 2019 at 12:48Permalink
When will they have to pay this? Do you have a data and amount or is this something your secret source told you to not mention?
On the CPFH it is based on the total fleet and the creation and execution of all the depots and other facilities associated with bedding down 1700+ fighters in the USAF alone. Legacy aircraft are relying on decades old infrastructure that has been built up over the decades to sustain the fleet while the F-35 fleet is just getting started while adding significant number of aircraft each year. The USAF and Congress can make it quicker by investing more resources on MILCON and standing up more organic depot capacity faster but they are likely trying to balance a bunch of other spending priorities at the same time as well.
Also, not everything is about France or a French aerospace supplier which you seem to bring into threads that have nothing to do with the Rafale or French aircraft.
You can check the history of justice course about the helemet. DoD already lost in appeal and supreme court on one of the three criteria of patentability and in appeal on a second...
About CFPH, however one Twist simple facts. USAF executive said that they qould not reach the goal until 2035. Comma. Won't comment about ALIS, it is simply hilarious. It has cost zillions and is going to be completely rearchitectured, costing other zillions to taxpayers.
It is called scorpion, check you facts before self-irony. If you do not want to look ridiculous.
By: bring_it_on
- 28th February 2019 at 13:06Permalink- Edited 28th February 2019 at 13:07
You can check the history of justice course about the helemet. DoD already lost in appeal and supreme court on one of the three criteria of patentability and in appeal on a second...
No all I am asking you is to quantify what will be paid and when. You seemed to randomly introduce Thales into a topic that had nothing to do with it, now add some value to what you brought up...Tell us how much willl be paid and when. I get it that you want to talk about Dassault/Thales etc even on the F-35 thread but if you are going to go OT on every occasion might as well add some value NO?
About CFPH, however one Twist simple facts. USAF executive said that they qould not reach the goal until 2035. Comma. Won't comment about ALIS, it is simply hilarious. It has cost zillions and is going to be completely rearchitectured, costing other zillions to taxpayers.
CPFH reduction is a fleet wide effort and involves the aircraft, the way it is maintained, maintainers, depot facilities etc etc etc. The "executive" cannot promise things which are out of his hands but can only offer his best estimate based on current investments. Standing up organic depots have been delayed significantly during BCA years and this is well documented over the years. Same with raiding MILCON accounts to support other needs. If these things are accelerated things can happen faster but only if those paying the bills don't move the money around to support other needs as they have been doing for a long time during sequestration.
By: halloweene
- 28th February 2019 at 16:22Permalink- Edited 28th February 2019 at 16:29
No all I am asking you is to quantify what will be paid and when. You seemed to randomly introduce Thales into a topic that had nothing to do with it, now add some value to what you brought up...Tell us how much willl be paid and when. I get it that you want to talk about Dassault/Thales etc even on the F-35 thread but if you are going to go OT on every occasion might as well add some value NO?
I do not know, but chest bumping for your 1000th infringement of a patent is pretty "chinese" way imho. And i guess, considering the cost of the helmet, that the cost of the fine will be quite high don't you?
About CFPH, how many times have we heard that it would very soon be lower than "4th Gen"? (partly due to ALIS). Yoou perfectly know my main issue with the program is with the program itself more than with the aircraft don't you? The concept is rather sound, but the management was absolutely terrible (including a bunch of tweaks taht made it heavier etc.)
(including a bunch of tweaks taht made it heavier etc.)
Like?
About CFPH, how many times have we heard that it would very soon be lower than "4th Gen"?
They say there was 15% improvement in last 3years.
2025 goal for 25k is what F-16 costs USAF now...
long term plans for 4mil/year is half of what F-16 costs now (if its in comparable metric)...
So we will see if they can manage that...
By: bring_it_on
- 28th February 2019 at 17:03Permalink
Is that a lame attempt at censorship ?
The funny accusation aside, I'm merely pointing out a pattern that most who have observed his behavior on this thread, and others (Typhoon etc etc) would note in that somehow completely unrelated things get diverted to areas that have something to do with Dassault, Rafale, Thales etc etc. Again, I can be wrong but others are free to form their own judgement and since I'm merely a member here with no actual censorship authority the rest of accusation holds little merit.
By: bring_it_on
- 28th February 2019 at 17:16Permalink
I do not know, but chest bumping for your 1000th infringement of a patent is pretty "chinese" way imho. And i guess, considering the cost of the helmet, that the cost of the fine will be quite high don't you?
A company announcing that it supplied the 1000th component to a program is just a milestone for the program. The legal dispute is old news and is well documented here by you. As you mention it is in appeal and that itself makes it different from the absurd attempt you have made to link it to "Chinese" issues. This is a commercial matter that will be adjudicated upon and eventually settled by commercial parties. The reason why I asked about actual $ amounts and timeframes was that I thought you had some new information to add which we did not already know or hadn't discussed in the past which would warrant you quoting this news release and then taking the discussion to an unrelated (to the release) legal issue elsewhere.
Do let us know how much the commercial arrangement does end up costing the parties involved once the dust settles.
About CFPH, how many times have we heard that it would very soon be lower than "4th Gen"? (partly due to ALIS). Yoou perfectly know my main issue with the program is with the program itself more than with the aircraft don't you? The concept is rather sound, but the management was absolutely terrible (including a bunch of tweaks taht made it heavier etc.)
The CAPE last performed the CPFH comparison b/w F-35A and an F-16C alternative to it in 2015 and at that time the delta was around $5,000 in 2012$. Perhaps the FY20 SAR will include an update but the roadmap of bringing those numbers closer to each other involves a lot of MILCON and infrastructure investment and better sourcing all things that are going to be investment and budget driven in the long run.
Yes ALIS is problematic and is an ACAT-1 program that should have never been part of the main JSF program but run separately. We already know this and this is not new information or data. That was a poor decision made at the time and they should have really pursued a concurrent program for a PHM and competed it separately. But now the focus isn't on doing an armchair analysis of previous decisions but to make things work and addressing the challenges associated with a growing global fleet that is set to grow by 130 aircraft this year alone. That is almost 80% the size of the installed base of many other fighter or bomber programs. There is enough incentive there to make those improvements but for the USAF a lot of the efficiencies will come with adequate investment in depot level capability which is running behind due to budgetary constraints.
By: halloweene
- 28th February 2019 at 17:28Permalink
Do let us know how much the commercial arrangement does end up costing the parties involved once the dust settles.
I'd love to know by myself. It isn't anymore in appeal i think, but in supreme court, but i'm not aware enough of US justice system to be assertive.
About ALIS, it is our common interest as allies that it ends well.
By: halloweene
- 28th February 2019 at 17:41Permalink
Like seeing through the floor instead of just knowing what is there. But as a neck can not turn 180° you have to go back to good old screens to know what is behind. I would love to see reports about the possible cognitive dissonances. Etc. Wanting to see vy night on a screen led to many problems (see the famous deck landing), which could have been avoided using simpler systems. Like ALIS which is a good idea (not unique to F-35 btw), but became too fat a proram to function properly etc.
The concept of multirole stealthy and communication node is good imho. About the intra patrol data fusion i'm dubious, because at a moment of another one has to validate the sitac.Is it really necessary to implement the mission commander L-16 function on a fighter necessary? Do you think ONE f-35 will lead a COMAO?
These are capabilities that delayed and cost a bunch while they could have been implemented step by step.
Anyway, as FBW said on another topic, wait and see. This summer should give loads of info. Btw, F-35 will be tested in switzerland weeks 21-23 or so.
New
Posts: 550
By: St. John
- 28th February 2019 at 18:53Permalink
You could just turn your body as well, or the plane.
Posts: 12,109
By: bring_it_on - 27th February 2019 at 00:08 Permalink - Edited 27th February 2019 at 00:09
Yeah Israel would very much like to integrate its weapons as soon as possible and around the time that they complete their deliveries. With UAI coming in block - 4 and a lot more weapon programs likely to be launched in FY20-22 given the change in investment focus they will be busy integrating weapons, virtually non stop from now through the entire next decade and eventually once the fleet reaches a critical mass of around 300-400 aircraft with the USAF a lot of these new starts will begin to have the F-35 as the platform slated for initial integration.
Posts: 5,197
By: SpudmanWP - 27th February 2019 at 00:10 Permalink
If Israel wants to integrate their weapons without anyone else knowing, the easiest way to do it create their own UAI drivers for their own weapons. With the upcoming ALIS filters they can can even keep it out of ALIS.
Posts: 12,109
By: bring_it_on - 27th February 2019 at 00:13 Permalink - Edited 27th February 2019 at 00:14
I don't think it is as much as them keeping it a secret as it is that it will not be reported as extensively by the program because it is likely to be an FMS/DCS as opposed to a partner plan, so it could very likely be that LM is allowed to work on some of the Israeli stuff commercially in partnership with their local OEM's. Didn't they have a couple of aircraft that they were to kit for testing some of their local stuff?
Posts: 5,197
By: SpudmanWP - 27th February 2019 at 00:24 Permalink
I know they are to get an "Orange Wire" F-35 but I don't know when.
Posts: 5,905
By: TomcatViP - 27th February 2019 at 21:01 Permalink - Edited 27th February 2019 at 21:32
A must read on DefenseNews.com
Posts: 5,905
By: TomcatViP - 27th February 2019 at 22:43 Permalink
Northrop Grumman completed the 500th center fuselage for F-35 Lightning II
Source:
Defense-Blog.com
Posts: 12,109
By: bring_it_on - 27th February 2019 at 23:00 Permalink
Posts: 4,168
By: halloweene - 28th February 2019 at 11:11 Permalink - Edited 28th February 2019 at 11:12
Gonna be VERY expensive when they will have to pay for 1000 violations of Thales Visionix patent...
CPFH will possibly be lower than current "4th Gen"... In 2035
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-airshow-lockheed/lockheed-expects-f-35-flying-costs-will-take-time-to-come-down-executive-idUSKCN1QG0D5
In the meanwhile, ALIS is even poorer than expected. Pplare extracting data 'prbably under uncoded txt to bring it to .csv and than maunally input them in excel.... Good news is they were ble to automatize that complex manoeuver...
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019...est-headaches/
This industrial program will probably be a good lesson on what not to do for industrial development in the future...
Posts: 12,109
By: bring_it_on - 28th February 2019 at 11:13 Permalink - Edited 28th February 2019 at 12:20
When will they have to pay this? Do you have a data and amount or is this something your secret source told you to not mention?
On the CPFH it is based on the total fleet and the creation and execution of all the depots and other facilities associated with bedding down 1700+ fighters in the USAF alone. Legacy aircraft are relying on decades old infrastructure that has been built up over the decades to sustain the fleet while the F-35 fleet is just getting started while adding significant number of aircraft each year. The USAF and Congress can make it quicker by investing more resources on MILCON and standing up more organic depot capacity faster but they are likely trying to balance a bunch of other spending priorities at the same time as well.
Also, not everything is about France or a French aerospace supplier which you seem to bring into threads that have nothing to do with the Rafale or French aircraft.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 28th February 2019 at 12:13 Permalink
Patent violations for a helmet that Rafale doesn't have?
Posts: 893
By: OPIT - 28th February 2019 at 12:30 Permalink
Is that a lame attempt at censorship ?
Posts: 4,168
By: halloweene - 28th February 2019 at 12:48 Permalink
You can check the history of justice course about the helemet. DoD already lost in appeal and supreme court on one of the three criteria of patentability and in appeal on a second...
About CFPH, however one Twist simple facts. USAF executive said that they qould not reach the goal until 2035. Comma. Won't comment about ALIS, it is simply hilarious. It has cost zillions and is going to be completely rearchitectured, costing other zillions to taxpayers.
It is called scorpion, check you facts before self-irony. If you do not want to look ridiculous.
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=b5ed7e76-b6d0-42eb-9e1e-1964a61d35bf
Here is for you education.
Posts: 12,109
By: bring_it_on - 28th February 2019 at 13:06 Permalink - Edited 28th February 2019 at 13:07
No all I am asking you is to quantify what will be paid and when. You seemed to randomly introduce Thales into a topic that had nothing to do with it, now add some value to what you brought up...Tell us how much willl be paid and when. I get it that you want to talk about Dassault/Thales etc even on the F-35 thread but if you are going to go OT on every occasion might as well add some value NO?
CPFH reduction is a fleet wide effort and involves the aircraft, the way it is maintained, maintainers, depot facilities etc etc etc. The "executive" cannot promise things which are out of his hands but can only offer his best estimate based on current investments. Standing up organic depots have been delayed significantly during BCA years and this is well documented over the years. Same with raiding MILCON accounts to support other needs. If these things are accelerated things can happen faster but only if those paying the bills don't move the money around to support other needs as they have been doing for a long time during sequestration.
Posts: 4,168
By: halloweene - 28th February 2019 at 16:22 Permalink - Edited 28th February 2019 at 16:29
I do not know, but chest bumping for your 1000th infringement of a patent is pretty "chinese" way imho. And i guess, considering the cost of the helmet, that the cost of the fine will be quite high don't you?
About CFPH, how many times have we heard that it would very soon be lower than "4th Gen"? (partly due to ALIS). Yoou perfectly know my main issue with the program is with the program itself more than with the aircraft don't you? The concept is rather sound, but the management was absolutely terrible (including a bunch of tweaks taht made it heavier etc.)
Posts: 29
By: Shania - 28th February 2019 at 16:57 Permalink
Like?
They say there was 15% improvement in last 3years.
2025 goal for 25k is what F-16 costs USAF now...
long term plans for 4mil/year is half of what F-16 costs now (if its in comparable metric)...
So we will see if they can manage that...
Posts: 12,109
By: bring_it_on - 28th February 2019 at 17:03 Permalink
The funny accusation aside, I'm merely pointing out a pattern that most who have observed his behavior on this thread, and others (Typhoon etc etc) would note in that somehow completely unrelated things get diverted to areas that have something to do with Dassault, Rafale, Thales etc etc. Again, I can be wrong but others are free to form their own judgement and since I'm merely a member here with no actual censorship authority the rest of accusation holds little merit.
Posts: 12,109
By: bring_it_on - 28th February 2019 at 17:16 Permalink
A company announcing that it supplied the 1000th component to a program is just a milestone for the program. The legal dispute is old news and is well documented here by you. As you mention it is in appeal and that itself makes it different from the absurd attempt you have made to link it to "Chinese" issues. This is a commercial matter that will be adjudicated upon and eventually settled by commercial parties. The reason why I asked about actual $ amounts and timeframes was that I thought you had some new information to add which we did not already know or hadn't discussed in the past which would warrant you quoting this news release and then taking the discussion to an unrelated (to the release) legal issue elsewhere.
Do let us know how much the commercial arrangement does end up costing the parties involved once the dust settles.
The CAPE last performed the CPFH comparison b/w F-35A and an F-16C alternative to it in 2015 and at that time the delta was around $5,000 in 2012$. Perhaps the FY20 SAR will include an update but the roadmap of bringing those numbers closer to each other involves a lot of MILCON and infrastructure investment and better sourcing all things that are going to be investment and budget driven in the long run.
Yes ALIS is problematic and is an ACAT-1 program that should have never been part of the main JSF program but run separately. We already know this and this is not new information or data. That was a poor decision made at the time and they should have really pursued a concurrent program for a PHM and competed it separately. But now the focus isn't on doing an armchair analysis of previous decisions but to make things work and addressing the challenges associated with a growing global fleet that is set to grow by 130 aircraft this year alone. That is almost 80% the size of the installed base of many other fighter or bomber programs. There is enough incentive there to make those improvements but for the USAF a lot of the efficiencies will come with adequate investment in depot level capability which is running behind due to budgetary constraints.
Posts: 4,168
By: halloweene - 28th February 2019 at 17:28 Permalink
I'd love to know by myself. It isn't anymore in appeal i think, but in supreme court, but i'm not aware enough of US justice system to be assertive.
About ALIS, it is our common interest as allies that it ends well.
Posts: 4,168
By: halloweene - 28th February 2019 at 17:41 Permalink
Like seeing through the floor instead of just knowing what is there. But as a neck can not turn 180° you have to go back to good old screens to know what is behind. I would love to see reports about the possible cognitive dissonances. Etc. Wanting to see vy night on a screen led to many problems (see the famous deck landing), which could have been avoided using simpler systems. Like ALIS which is a good idea (not unique to F-35 btw), but became too fat a proram to function properly etc.
The concept of multirole stealthy and communication node is good imho. About the intra patrol data fusion i'm dubious, because at a moment of another one has to validate the sitac.Is it really necessary to implement the mission commander L-16 function on a fighter necessary? Do you think ONE f-35 will lead a COMAO?
These are capabilities that delayed and cost a bunch while they could have been implemented step by step.
Anyway, as FBW said on another topic, wait and see. This summer should give loads of info. Btw, F-35 will be tested in switzerland weeks 21-23 or so.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 28th February 2019 at 18:53 Permalink
You could just turn your body as well, or the plane.