2019 F-35 News and Discussion

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Profile picture for user Marcellogo

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6 years 7 months

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Angelo Tofalo is , for what I know just an undersecretary i.e. not someone really important.
I have the impression they want to delay the choice the most as they can and talk about it even less.
Delaying is a smart move IMHO, FOC configuration and full rate production is near and we can wait for them.

And obviously, I support F-35 acquisition by my own country, not because I think it's something extraordinary or out of this world at all as LM propaganda suggest, just that what we need is a strike aircraft as a substitute for Tornado and AMX and F-35 is an excellent choice for this role.

About communication mode I personally use formulas like IMHO , AFAIK , in my opinion... to specify it's a personal opinion and not some God written truth.

Profile picture for user Sintra

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13 years 5 months

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So let's sum up. Germany is out, and Uk dubious didt hey get the notice about low life expectancy?

Nothing to do with "low life expectancy".
Germany (and Spain) have a Typhoon assembly line... And the 25th has not exactly made things easy for a German Minister to go into the Bundestag stating that the biggest military order for the next decade will be contracted with LM (or Boeing). And while Phoon cant land on QEII, HM MOD does not need 138 JCA´s for two front line FJ Sqn´s, one OCU and a handfull of training spares in the States. Unless the T1´s Phoon´s are replaced by JCA´s in the thirties there´s no need for so many Dave´s .

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8 years 11 months

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I'm afraid since Germany ruled out F-35. Please the exact terms of the new Aix la Chapelle agreement, specially the part about mutual defence.Clearly written "by any means" to me it means that germany is now nder french nuke umbrella.

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You're not going to start singing Rihanna are you?

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8 years 11 months

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You're not going to start singing Rihanna are you?

Next?

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3 years

Posts: 550

Under my Umbrella.:D

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8 years 11 months

Posts: 4,168

Last time i heard about F-35 umbrella was whenegyptian pilots got fire solutions above Liban. Of course, F-35 were as usually using RF lenses so it doese not have so much sense.
PS due to present international relationships i'd preer an ASMP/A umbrella to a b61.

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9 years 1 month

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"Ave, Imperator, morituri te salutant"

Citation from an ecstatic umbrella pilot...

B/w, Hallow do you have a direct reference to this in the Branco-German agreement?

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8 years 11 months

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The complete text is available on officialsite. I'd sinderley dig it for you tonight, but for many reasons i'm exhausted.

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No problem. Thank you Hallow.

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9 years 1 month

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Why Germany should reconsider the F-35 participation - an opinion read from DefenseNews.com:

German F-35 decision sacrifices NATO capability for Franco-German industrial cooperation

As stated before there is ample room for both planes in Germany. The FCAS and the F-35 are not mutually exclusive unless in the mouth of the most radicals sparking the defense debate as if it was a wheat field. They don't care of the sacrifice that their position will impair on those that invariably will stay behind: they would rather burn it to the ground no matter the consequences.

Notice that I am strongly in favor of a bunch of Growler in Europe. So, at the end, there is still hope for something.

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Do You mean it's a retribution for denying Airbus a definitive win with the MRTT at the time?

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As stated before there is ample room for both planes in Germany. The FCAS and the F-35 are not mutually exclusive unless in the mouth of the most radicals sparking the defense debate as if it was a wheat field. They don't care of the sacrifice that their position will impair on those that invariably will stay behind: they would rather burn it to the ground no matter the consequences.

Not really. The main strengths of the F-35 are its intelligence gathering and coordination abilities and then its stealth - enabling one to safely strike targets in protected airspace. As the Germans are not as involved with bombing militants and failed dictators all over the world, they don't need the strike capability so much right now. The intelligence and coordination would be useful. But I guess they decided to give their own industry some protection and long term funding so that they can make their (joint) FCAS.

I like the F-35. Nevertheless, the article does oversell it. Right now, if you want to blast the heck out of someone then you need stealth assets. If all you need is a deterrence function then a good legacy platform will do well enough. This will be the case for the next 10-12 years still.

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I guess they decided to give their own industry some protection and long term funding so that they can make their (joint) FCAS.

For a country hosting some of the most appraised Automotive brands, it's a bit funny to see them applying socialism to their Defense industry.

I like the F-35. Nevertheless, the article does oversell it. Right now, if you want to blast the heck out of someone then you need stealth assets. If all you need is a deterrence function then a good legacy platform will do well enough. This will be the case for the next 10-12 years still.

So much that when French Strategic forces simulates a long range strike, the return leg is... not even part to the training mission. And no one in the free press (remember) say a word.
When you or your kids are not in the line its so much easy to dust-off the causality rates.

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...it's a bit funny to see them applying socialism to their Defense industry.

Why? All countries operate their defense apparatus off of a socialist system. There is a lot of libertarian theory out there on how to operate defense purely off of a private property based market process, nevertheless the fact is that all nations currently use something of a "from each according to their ability and to each according to their need" approach. (This is true with draft/selective service, setting budgets, who gets contracts, etc.) It's a throwback from mankind's tribal beginnings.

When you or your kids are not in the line its so much easy to dust-off the causality rates.

You don't understand deterrence. As I said, if you are looking to start a conflict then you need stealth assets to avoid casualties. If you just want to provide enough punch back so that nobody attacks you (deterrence) because it would be financially prohibitive for them to do so, or cause them too many casualties, or be political suicide, or (win or lose) the outcome would leave that power vulnerable to other nations, etc. then there are no casualties. They don't attack you!

So much that when French Strategic forces simulates a long range strike, the return leg is... not even part to the training mission.

God forbid that ever happen, but should it then there won't be a lot of homes to come back to. And some that do return home will just watch their families die a slow death. Thankfully, deterrence seems to work. Even evil people fear their own death.

Profile picture for user FBW

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These recent posts stray pretty far from the thread topic and cross into morals and policy. Wouldn't it be great if there was a section on this forum to air such things? We could call it "General Discussion" and separate it from the aviation forum section.

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i can only agree. Interesting discussion as EU andUSA ppl have a very different view on what is "socialism"

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You don't understand deterrence. As I said, if you are looking to start a conflict then you need stealth assets to avoid casualties. If you just want to provide enough punch back so that nobody attacks you (deterrence) because it would be financially prohibitive for them to do so, or cause them too many casualties, or be political suicide, or (win or lose) the outcome would leave that power vulnerable to other nations, etc. then there are no casualties. They don't attack you!

A great example of lack of understanding of "deterrence"...

South Korea and Japan did not buy F-35s because they want to become aggressors. They bought them as deterrence against a neighbor who might start to believe that it could hide behind hundreds SAMs and AIs and dictate its will, with no recourse but submission by South Korea and Japan. Stealthy F-35 changes that dynamic since it provides a measure of immunity against the SAMs and AIs, while providing the ability to prosecute heavily defended targets using conventional munitions. Stealthy F-35 is a deterrent capability.

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For a country hosting some of the most appraised Automotive brands, it's a bit funny to see them applying socialism to their Defense industry.

Ask P&W and Lockheed what they think about the price negotiation about the last F-35 LRIPs. Forcing a price on the supplier is 200% free market, yes. Not to talk about the huge pressures US exerts on foreign countries and the industrial returns to participate in F-35. Don't lie to yourself and don't insult our intelligence. Defence industry and other high tech ones are strategic sectors and are ALWAYS controlled by the state in any country, US first amongst them

A great example of lack of understanding of "deterrence"...

South Korea and Japan did not buy F-35s because they want to become aggressors. They bought them as deterrence against a neighbor who might start to believe that it could hide behind hundreds SAMs and AIs and dictate its will, with no recourse but submission by South Korea and Japan. Stealthy F-35 changes that dynamic since it provides a measure of immunity against the SAMs and AIs, while providing the ability to prosecute heavily defended targets using conventional munitions. Stealthy F-35 is a deterrent capability.


XB-70 is spot on, don't know how you manage to criticise him in this issue. Some western mentality seems so terminally off the mark that claims that hiding behind SAMs and powerful defence capabilities is aggressive behaviour (read yourself above and let sink all your are implying with that), probably to justify constant Western wars of aggression, they even came to the point of naming those defences with a pretentious, falsely technical name (A2/AD) to obfuscate that the matter of their relentless studies is how to violate the sovereignty of other states. And the best known about those offensive technologies destined to attack other countries with impunity is stealth. You are either disingenuously confusing aggression with deterrence or you really are living in other planet man. SAMs are defensive weapons, without use unless you attack the country protected by them. Stealth planes are offensive ones. One would expect somebody interested in military issues would know that at least.

EDIT: BTW, look at the development of stand-off weapons for F-35 and tell me more about that stealth immunity against IADS... deeds matter, not only empty words.