2019 F-35 News and Discussion

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Air Force was clear. They need F-15 as a complement to F-35 for some of PCA missions involving big missiles

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If it was "clear" that they needed "new" F-15s then they would have had a proper RFI/RFP process instead of a mandate from OUTSIDE of the USAF.

Some in the USAF may be saying it now, after they were taken behind the woodshed, but that is not what they were saying 6 months ago. :stupid:

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Air Force was clear. They need F-15 as a complement to F-35 for some of PCA missions involving big missiles

Yeah that is why the USAF has been engaged in a double digit billion dollar upgrade program for the 200+ F-15E's in service. The USAF most definitely does not need to get the Air National guard new aircraft to meet this specific requirement. There are two components driving this decision, the first is readiness of the F-15C fleet and the second is industrial base. While one can most definitely pile on additional rationale after the fact but the decision to consider the F-15X option for the ANG was likely driven almost exclusively by these two components. After all, the health of the IB is a major concern of the Pentagon so if they need to spend a few billion to keep Boeing in fighter production through the 2020's when it can begin competing for 6th generation then so be it. Improving readiness rates and modernizing the overall capability of the guard is just cherry on the top. I don't think it was a coincidence that news leaks of some major movement on the F-15X front came just a few months after the DOD concluded its Industrial Base study.

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Yeah that is why the USAF has been engaged in a double digit billion dollar upgrade program for the 200+ F-15E's in service. The USAF most definitely does not need to get the Air National guard new aircraft to meet this specific requirement. There are two components driving this decision, the first is readiness of the F-15C fleet and the second is industrial base. While one can most definitely pile on additional rationale after the fact but the decision to consider the F-15X option for the ANG was likely driven almost exclusively by these two components. After all, the health of the IB is a major concern of the Pentagon so if they need to spend a few billion to keep Boeing in fighter production through the 2020's when it can begin competing for 6th generation then so be it. Improving readiness rates and modernizing the overall capability of the guard is just cherry on the top. I don't think it was a coincidence that news leaks of some major movement on the F-15X front came just a few months after the DOD concluded its Industrial Base study.

It all depends which systems they will fit on those new F-15, from my humble PoV, F-35 demonstrated a vast superiority over 4th gen A-Cs at this level, in particular information and networking, if the F-15 beneficiate from the same level of avionics and integration it will be perfectly suited for this support role, it remains an awesome A-C.

Why not opening a F-15X topic and post infos?

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The systems that will go on those F-15's will be very identical to what the F-15 program has funded for the E and C besides the extra stores on the X variants. I don't think we need a new thread to discuss the F-15X as there is a USAF Non F-35 threat that is appropriate for doing so.

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The systems that will go on those F-15's will be very identical to what the F-15 program has funded for the E and C besides the extra stores on the X variants. I don't think we need a new thread to discuss the F-15X as there is a USAF Non F-35 threat that is appropriate for doing so.

OK i'll have a look at it thanks.

As I expected, 4th gen A-C suffers a lot in this new environment, if they want to be able to counter F-35, a lot of sensor development is needed, and it will take time...

I did find this video very informative.

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F-15C and F-15E are receiving upgrades to improve combat effectiveness.

Legion Pod, Talon Hate and EMC2 (Einstein Box) are all fast-track initiatives to improve the lethality of F-15C by allowing them to be RF silent yet use their AIM-120s with targeting data provided by unseen F-22s and F-35s.

EPAWSS gives F-15E the ability to detect and target SAM radars with PGMs and provide active countermeasures against RF missiles, if needed.

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F-15C and F-15E are receiving upgrades to improve combat effectiveness.

Legion Pod, Talon Hate and EMC2 (Einstein Box) are all fast-track initiatives to improve the lethality of F-15C by allowing them to be RF silent yet use their AIM-120s with targeting data provided by unseen F-22s and F-35s.

EPAWSS gives F-15E the ability to detect and target SAM radars with PGMs and provide active countermeasures against RF missiles, if needed.

I m not familiar at all with those systems, would those upgrade put them on par with F-35 or just enough to play this support role?

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I m not familiar at all with those systems, would those upgrade put them on par with F-35 or just enough to play this support role?

There's nothing that you can do to make a 4th gen fighter "on par" with an F-35, that includes whatever tranche Typhoon
is in you can also add that those cute little planes the Swedes and French fly.

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There's nothing that you can do to make a 4th gen fighter "on par" with an F-35, that includes whatever tranche Typhoon
is in you can also add that those cute little planes the Swedes and French fly.

I was thinking about systems, not VLO features and I am not sure I agree that it would be impossible to upgrade a 4/4.5 gen A-C to this level.

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I was thinking about systems, not VLO features and I am not sure I agree that it would be impossible to upgrade a 4/4.5 gen A-C to this level.

I too was talking about systems. The cost and labor to somehow install/integrate DAS/EOTS and AN/ASQ-239 ew on 4th gen fighters is not worth it.

We're talking about taking the plane apart not to mention the weight it will add to the aircraft.

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I too was talking about systems. The cost and labor to somehow install/integrate DAS/EOTS and AN/ASQ-239 ew on 4th gen fighters is not worth it.

We're talking about taking the plane apart not to mention the weight it will add to the aircraft.

OK, I got your point, but I think SAAB and Dassault think otherwise, like GAAN (power consumption and weight), conformal aerials etc, not mentioning IR sensors, but I think this, as you point out will cost a lot of money and take time.

On the other hand it could lay the technologic basis for the next generation they have in the pipeline, for the time being, the superiority of F-35 at this level is striking, I believe this will trigger some reaction from the decision makers in Europe, one way or another.

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Here's something to think about... The F-15X is going to be a brand new aircraft (specifically its guts) just like F-18E is
a totally new aircraft from the F-18c, so why is F-15X not going to have the F-35's EODAS/helmet integration capability..?

Could it be its 4th gen design makes it impossible or very expensive to integrate such systems on that kind of outdated platform?

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Here's something to think about... The F-15X is going to be a brand new aircraft (specifically its guts) just like F-18E is
a totally new aircraft from the F-18c, so why is F-15X not going to have the F-35's EODAS/helmet integration capability..?

Could it be its 4th gen design makes it impossible or very expensive to integrate such systems on that kind of outdated platform?

I wouldn't say so, upgrades could be more expensive due to the possible difficulty of integrating systems not specifically designed for it but if as you say it is redesigned to the point of being essentially a new airframe, I don't see why not.

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I wouldn't say so, upgrades could be more expensive due to the possible difficulty of integrating systems not specifically designed for it but if as you say it is redesigned to the point of being essentially a new airframe, I don't see why not.

You wouldn't say so..? If it were possible it would be done on the F-15X or that silly version Boeing rolled out, F-15 Silent Eagle,
that too didn't have EODAS with helmet integration capability.

You pretty much have to design a fighter from the ground up in order to carry these systems and installing such systems
on 4th gen fighters is next to impossible do to cost and pretty much compromising the fighters performance by adding
weight and adding drag on the 4th gen fighter.

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You wouldn't say so..? If it were possible it would be done on the F-15X or that silly version Boeing rolled out, F-15 Silent Eagle,
that too didn't have EODAS with helmet integration capability.

You pretty much have to design a fighter from the ground up in order to carry these systems and installing such systems
on 4th gen fighters is next to impossible do to cost and pretty much compromising the fighters performance by adding
weight and adding drag on the 4th gen fighter.

I think you greatly underestimate the growth potential of some of those A-Cs and the gain new technologies can bring in terms of performances and weight, passive sensors (IRST and SPECTRA for example) already exists and are being upgraded as we speak, conformal GaN aerials as well (Spectra and radar), now, whether it will be enough to put it on par with the actual F-35 remains to be seen but they are trying.

What I have seen in E-F PDF about PIRATE a long time ago, was their will to counter VLO with it, I was not expecting it to happen any time soon but then again, they are working at new generation of IR sensors too, very much the same for SAAB.

F-15 airframe is rather spacious and if they redesign it to an extend I think they will be able to integrate similar systems, it all come down to cost.

Air Force was clear. They need F-15 as a complement to F-35 for some of PCA missions involving big missiles

The USAF doesn't want nor need the F-15X. Just being pushed by some"politicians" as corporate welfare for Boeing.

Here's something to think about... The F-15X is going to be a brand new aircraft (specifically its guts) just like F-18E is
a totally new aircraft from the F-18c, so why is F-15X not going to have the F-35's EODAS/helmet integration capability..?

Could it be its 4th gen design makes it impossible or very expensive to integrate such systems on that kind of outdated platform?

The F-15X will never happen just like the F-15SE (Silent Eagle) and F-15 2040C. :rolleyes:

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The USAF doesn't want nor need the F-15X. Just being pushed by some"politicians" as corporate welfare for Boeing.

Feel free to think so. That is not what they say.

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I too was talking about systems. The cost and labor to somehow install/integrate DAS/EOTS and AN/ASQ-239 ew on 4th gen fighters is not worth it.

We're talking about taking the plane apart not to mention the weight it will add to the aircraft.

The F-15 Advanced Eagles are already equipped with those systems, except the helmet with ability to project images from MAWS sensors.
DAS (AN/AAQ-37) equates to AN/AAR-57.
EOTS aka internal Sniper minus some features equates to externally carried targeting pods such as Sniper with full features. In addition, there is a separate IRST.
AN/ASQ-239 equates to digital electronic warfare systems (DEWS) or Eagle Passive Active Warning Survivability System (EPAWSS).

No need to take apart anything.
The only thing that's missing is the helmet, but if someone is willing to fund such an endeavour, I see no reason why it couldn't be done. Lack of interest for such a system probably relates to immense (software) development cost. Wasn't exactly a trouble free development for the F-35. To make up for it, there is a HUD. :D