UK's new Tempest fighter !

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12 years

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Italy is showing interest in participating in the Tempest programme:

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/02/15/taking-sides-italian-defense-industry-rep-attacks-franco-german-fighter-deal/

And still showing interest:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/leonardo-targets-role-on-uks-tempest-next-gen-fight-456692/

I see a problem with depending on Italy to provide funding, so would Italy's participation create more uncertainty for the project or less?

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8 years 5 months

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Well, with Brexit incoming, financing from the Uk may also become a problem...

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14 years 7 months

Posts: 242

Italy is showing interest in participating in the Tempest programme:

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/02/15/taking-sides-italian-defense-industry-rep-attacks-franco-german-fighter-deal/

And still showing interest:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/leonardo-targets-role-on-uks-tempest-next-gen-fight-456692/

I see a problem with depending on Italy to provide funding, so would Italy's participation create more uncertainty for the project or less?

Well there is a lot of mess in Italy regarding acquisitions and has also been but somehow they always find the money at the end when necessity is there.All previous governments have been cutting and cutting but always money was found.The 5 stars were always against F35 but the defense minister is a former army officer and they didnt cancel the order.Then Salvini of Lega happens to be very much pro army and Le and he wont let them do anything stupid

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8 years 5 months

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Well, they stopped paying their share in F-35 program since january...

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14 years 7 months

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Well, they stopped paying their share in F-35 program since january...

Old news monsieur.And honestly the italian armed forces reliability and in service equipment rates have been much higher than French ones...And please spare us comments on AMI F2000 MMI that you made before

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8 years 5 months

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What coment signore? would you be overtouchy?And let me laugh. Two countiries in Europe are are able to intervene e.g. In Mali. Two countries in Europe are tagged as lead nations for specialforces, none of them is Italy... And none of these countries paid Taliban to be quiet but did not mention it to the next country, hence many death.

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8 years 7 months

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Still,that's the Italian army that have the CH-47 that could be deployed in Mali... What France have, tell me again?

En attendant, Mme Parly fait le tour des pays européens susceptibles de déployer une telle capacité au profit de Barkhane. « Dans un premier temps, a-t-elle confié aux sénateurs de la commission des Affaires étrangères et des Forces armées, le retrait des CH-47D Chinook britanniques « pourrait être compensé par le Danemark, qui se déclare prêt à fournir des hélicoptères de transport de grande capacité. » En l’occurrence, il s’agirait de trois AgustaWestland AW101 sur les 14 que compte la « Flyvevåbnet » [force aérienne royale danoise, ndlr].
----------------------------------------

In the meantime, Ms. Parly [Fr MoD] is touring European countries likely to deploy such a capacity for the benefit of Barkhane. "At first, she told the senators of the Committee on Foreign Affairs and Armed Forces, the withdrawal of CH-47D British Chinook" could be compensated by Denmark, which is ready to provide high-capacity transport helicopters. In this case, there would be three AgustaWestland AW101s out of 14 in the "Flyvevà ¥ bnet" [Royal Danish Air Force, ed].

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14 years 7 months

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What coment signore? would you be overtouchy?And let me laugh. Two countiries in Europe are are able to intervene e.g. In Mali. Two countries in Europe are tagged as lead nations for specialforces, none of them is Italy... And none of these countries paid Taliban to be quiet but did not mention it to the next country, hence many death.

The one about F2000 Man Machine Interface,not being that great like in the vonderfoul Rafale.
Yeah like that country of grandeur imperiale that intervened in Libia because Total didnt get the petrol contract while pushing Italy in the Middle of financial crisis?
As for special forces you cannot even comment.9th Colmoschin and Comsubin have a 100 years old tradition and glory,and have been respected even by adversaries.When RMI Incursori & later X-mas was sinking whole austrian fleet and disrupting all british fleet operations in Mediterranean ,you Guys and Charles De Gol were winning the war on BBC.so much of a lead,and they payed for hostage release nothing else.Look at the casualties in TF 45 before accusing.

Check your army serviceability rates before commenting.Still flying Gazelles with Hot/Milan in 2019 wtf,la super puissance,vive la Franse.You should buy some F35 too

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14 years 7 months

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Still,that's the Italian army that have the CH-47 that could be deployed in Mali... What France have, tell me again?

They have Gazelle with Milan,Panhardt,Famas,Transall and Tigers with 10% availability

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Considering the regular spanking F-2000 gets vs Rafale (even if, as ever, there should be some Eurofightr victories) AND the "amphi cockpit" i had on both types AND informations given by Peter F Collins, there's a world of difference in termes of HMI and situational awareness where the one and only point where rafale lackED i: HMD. Corrected.
Apart from that, real data fusion (EF do not have),AESA (EF do not have), Spectra leagues above spartan (interferometric detection, IR MAWS etc. etc.) See results of swiss eval for example... Very talkative.

They have Gazelle with Milan,Panhardt,Famas,Transall and Tigers with 10% availability

Either check your numbers and cite right ones or shut up please.
Your famous SF are definitely good soldier, but not enough to be considered as "leading nation" by NATO (only US, UK and FR are)
Not to talk of your politicians/jigh rank officers paying pizzo in Surobi , buying quietness instead of doing the job, but forgetting to mention they did. Taliban chiefs expected the same from your successors hence an ambush kiling10 french sodiers (+ 20 injured). (with a huge fault from the captain one must admit).

So no NATO do not consider Italy as a "first in" neitheras a SF leading nation. Not my fault.
Our forces may not have a great servicability, but it is due to intense use in external operations. They are not parade only solciers.

You nationalistic rantings are tiring. The subject here is financing the tempest. Italy jumped into F-35 how could they finance both ?

Tomcat, please shut up where are you from to spat your hate permanently at everything french? Somethin must have happened during your infancy or what? Yes we do not have CH47 what a big deal. Despite means we did a noce ops in Mali that are now studied and teached at West Point.That should tell you a lot.What did you army do great ?

Oh btw, FAMAS (which was a pretty good rifle in its time ut cannot be properly adapted to modern more powerful recent NATO cartrides (M853 + need a steel casing) is being replaced at a high pace by HK 416 F.
For the sake of your knowlede, Panhard is now part of Renault Truck defense which mean VBCI and Scorpion program vehicles... Nor bad iw it?

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14 years 7 months

Posts: 242

Considering the regular spanking F-2000 gets vs Rafale (even if, as ever, there should be some Eurofightr victories) AND the "amphi cockpit" i had on both types AND informations given by Peter F Collins, there's a world of difference in termes of HMI and situational awareness where the one and only point where rafale lackED i: HMD. Corrected.
Apart from that, real data fusion (EF do not have),AESA (EF do not have), Spectra leagues above spartan (interferometric detection, IR MAWS etc. etc.) See results of swiss eval for example... Very talkative.

Either check your numbers and cite right ones or shut up please.
Your famous SF are definitely good soldier, but not enough to be considered as "leading nation" by NATO (only US, UK and FR are)
Not to talk of your politicians/jigh rank officers paying pizzo in Surobi , buying quietness instead of doing the job, but forgetting to mention they did. Taliban chiefs expected the same from your successors hence an ambush kiling10 french sodiers (+ 20 injured). (with a huge fault from the captain one must admit).

So no NATO do not consider Italy as a "first in" neitheras a SF leading nation. Not my fault.
Our forces may not have a great servicability, but it is due to intense use in external operations. They are not parade only solciers.

You nationalistic rantings are tiring. The subject here is financing the tempest. Italy jumped into F-35 how could they finance both ?

Tomcat, please shut up where are you from to spat your hate permanently at everything french? Somethin must have happened during your infancy or what? Yes we do not have CH47 what a big deal. Despite means we did a noce ops in Mali that are now studied and teached at West Point.That should tell you a lot.What did you army do great ?

Oh btw, FAMAS (which was a pretty good rifle in its time ut cannot be properly adapted to modern more powerful recent NATO cartrides (M853 + need a steel casing) is being replaced at a high pace by HK 416 F.
For the sake of your knowlede, Panhard is now part of Renault Truck defense which mean VBCI and Scorpion program vehicles... Nor bad iw it?

Damn halloweene touchè....much ado about nothing.
Italy is a partner and well established making important parts in Novara for the JSF.In lieu of possible turkish problems it may even increase production involvment,so gaining more experience in 5th generation technology.
Italy has payed for the F35,and even there will be some delay.
how can we afford?You french guys are funny....At 1.15% gdp our army is well equiped,has greater availability of equipment and better pay.F-35 price is under 100mil usd a piece,around 80 mil Euro offering greater capabilities that whatever future Rafale F-5-6-7 will have,which just in case because la grandeur vive la france,is costing after more than 200 made 1.5 times a F-35.

Better information?Spare me Famas,the great veapon...Are you still buying ammo steel cased in Israel at french prices?
I dont know what you compare...Tier fleet is 50% obsolete and just this year the HAD standard finally came in service and you bought urgently the Hellfire from US because still had vintage Hot.Still your main attack helicottero is Gazelle with Hot.
Italy went in Somalia in 94 with Mangusta providing close air suport,i dont remember how many years EH101 and Chinook are flying.
You sent people in war with Vbl in Afganistan when we in 90s had Centauro,Dardo,Freccia.Once the need was present the army had the money for all.Look at LMV MRAP story.
Nobody payed the Taliban except for the hostages.Its disgraceful for the italian personel fallen in battle.Just look about TF45 in Afganistan and how much direct action Italian SF did.
Maybe they died because of planning fail,careless neocolonial african style tactics in the wrong place?
You are good just to make coups in Africa,like in that Movie Le professional.
Mentioning hk416 does nothing since you have it in small numbers while italian SF went in war with it 12 years ago.

The F-2000 is better in everything except the deterrance and terrain following and the range with your weak m88.The man machine interface of typhoon and pretorian is second just to us design and has been praised.Get your story right it has aesa sensors.
Captor was offering greater capabilities than Rbe2,and Caesar will offer even more.
The Tempest partecipation will happen because it is a need for the future of AMI and the industrial base.
Meanwhile you continue to spend money with Force de Frapp and leave serviceability at 30%.Ah yeah Mali and the legion and your special forces.

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10 years 7 months

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A little less nationalistic ranting would be appreciated from both of you.

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8 years 5 months

Posts: 4,168

A little less nationalistic ranting would be appreciated from both of you.

Italy did. Revealed in march 2009 by the Times. They paid pizzo and barely left their Tora base afer one casualty (they were forbidden to go north to the main road, more or less at the level of the barrage, and it has nothing to do with the quality of italian troops).But it is another topic that should not be discussed here.(https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/mo...an_794782.html)

French SF also. First 1st RPIMA (A1) then CPA10 (A3) and commandos marine . All of our army is going for it, (102000 already ordered).

Back to topic?.

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20 years 6 months

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Both Italian and French SF are lions led by lambs. The lambs in charge have been politically neutered.

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8 years 5 months

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I did not mean, in ANY way, to show disrespect towards italian soldiers. I fought aside them and never had to complain. It is not them that bribed war thugs.It is the government after a casualty (a sub leutenant afair). Problem is that same gov. forgot to mention it to their successors.
So please no offense meant to italian soldiers. But we're off topic no?
I simply expressed my doubts about Italy financing both F- 35 and tempest. (aswell as Uk)

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6 years 1 month

Posts: 1,765

Hallowene, actually Italy is financing BOTH Typhoon (as acquisition of them have yet to be completed) than F-35.
Once we'll have completed the first program and that second would exit from LRIP we'll have plenty of resource to finance a research project actually at its very initial phase (or have mistaken that mock-up for something real?).

:-)

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16 years

Posts: 12,109

Nations "Buy" the present, and fund research on the "future" all the time. This is how most of the stuff is developed around the world so I see no reason as to why Italy, or the UK cannot be finishing up their F-35 acquisition program while also drawing up plans to, and ramping up R&D investments on next generation plans. Isn't that how the French, the Germans and pretty much everyone else do it?

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14 years 7 months

Posts: 242

Hallowene, actually Italy is financing BOTH Typhoon (as acquisition of them have yet to be completed) than F-35.
Once we'll have completed the first program and that second would exit from LRIP we'll have plenty of resource to finance a research project actually at its very initial phase (or have mistaken that mock-up for something real?).

:-)

398 mil euro was just payed to LockMart!Salvini clearly said that cancelling orders is not an option and we know that he pulls the strings,not Giggino u' bibitaro!
Tempest will happen,on both sides of the politics they are aware it has too.And you cannot underestimate Finmeccanica lobbying.

https://youtu.be/pSAyRWBb-_s

Member for

14 years 7 months

Posts: 242

Nations "Buy" the present, and fund research on the "future" all the time. This is how most of the stuff is developed around the world so I see no reason as to why Italy, or the UK cannot be finishing up their F-35 acquisition program while also drawing up plans to, and ramping up R&D investments on next generation plans. Isn't that how the French, the Germany and pretty much everyone else doing it?

I agree sir.Nobody said otherwise except our french friend.
Apparently the future in the term of F2000 and F-35 is too much for the french pride.
Except for some political fight and funds that may delay things but no cancellation