LCA Tejas and derivatives news and discussion (reincarnated)

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Another image of LCA Navy NP-1 just after the successful arrested landing trial


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Maolankar is a great stick who executed a steady, straight down the middle approach.

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SP-26 forward fuselage on the assembly line. That would be the 6th FOC Tejas Mk1. First one (SP-21) should be rolled out by this year end.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEvGXx0WkAEc3yd.jpg

LCA SP-13 and SP-16 at the LCA Tejas hangar. Already handed over to the IAF in March 2019. Possibly brought in for inspection by the Defence Minister in a couple of days.

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SP-26 forward fuselage on the assembly line. That would be the 6th FOC Tejas Mk1. First one (SP-21) should be rolled out by this year end.

So completion of the first FOC aircraft will be late. It was going to be end September, wasn't it? I recall this was foreseen due to the usual overdue decision making, something beyond HAL's control. Will HAL be able to catch up so that the last of the batch of 20 will be completed on time, I wonder.

Does anyone know the status of the Mk1A contract?

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So completion of the first FOC aircraft will be late. It was going to be end September, wasn't it? I recall this was foreseen due to the usual overdue decision making, something beyond HAL's control. Will HAL be able to catch up so that the last of the batch of 20 will be completed on time, I wonder.

Does anyone know the status of the Mk1A contract?

Why will completion of first FOC aircraft be late? It was to be delivered between October and December..exact dates weren't given. And seeing fuselages up to SP-28 on the assembly line makes me think that they will deliver the jets by the end of fiscal 2019.

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Asked when the first weaponised aircraft would be out, the spokesperson said, "Our objective is to deliver it with FOC configuration by year-end -- between October and December."

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Tejas to begin flight trials of an indigenous Onboard Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS) by December 2019 or early 2020.


BENGALURU: India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas will be graduating to the next level with the installation of the On-board Oxygen (OBOX) generating system by December or early 2020, said a scientist from Defence Electromedical & Bio-Engineering Laboratory (DEBEL), under the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO).

Almost a year after a successful mid-air fuelling of the Tejas, the LCA Mark-1 (Mk-1) of the Indian Air Force, which enables aircrafts to be airborne for longer durations, DEBEL researchers have developed the onboard oxygen generating system, OBOX, to help keep the pilot fit and alert for an equally long duration with continuous supply of oxygen while on high altitude, long-distance flights.

“As of now, a fighter pilot is airborne with a bottle of oxygen, a cylinder that comes with the aircraft, which has the capacity to last an hour at the most, before coming back to base to get it replenished. However, with the OBOX, oxygen will be available throughout, as long as the engine is running,” he said.

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“We have successfully completed lab trials. Now it is to have flight trials. Which is expected by the end of this year or by 2020. After that, this will be fitted on the Tejas,” he said.

The OBOX will flash warning lights and beeps when it detects lesser oxygen than demanded. An onboard electronic control unit on it will monitor the generation and percentage of oxygen.

The 14.5 kg OBOX has been designed for the Tejas and will be later used with small modification on Sukhois and Hawks.

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Austin - link works for me if pasted into browser but not from this page

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Frankly, it's a long shot. But not because of the Tejas Mk1A not being in service with the IAF as yet.

There are two things that make it look like that- first, the political aspect. Political tensions between India and Malaysia over the remarks of Mahathir Mohammed over J&K in the UN have plunged ties to a new low.  And secondly- the fact that there is very little experience on the part of HAL in getting export sales, when compared to Saab, KAI, Leonardo. HAL is well aware that they have a large number

The entire timing of when this Malaysian tender will actually lead to a contract being awarded is suspect. They have not got the funding to get this deal done anytime soon, so by the time they do, the IAF would've probably received its first Tejas Mk1A.

The IAF is going to sign a deal for 83 Tejas Mk1A fighters by the end of this fiscal (March 2020 end) and these jets will start to be on the production line as soon as the 16 FOC fighters and then the remaining 8 FOC twin seaters are delivered. The changes from the FOC Tejas Mk1 to the Mk1A will not take long to be validated and from all reports the Tejas Mk1's maintainability is way better than the IAF anticipated. So, no major issues likely, and even if any teething issues arise, the IAF will ensure that they're taken care of.

The question of Israeli sourced equipment on the Tejas Mk1A is interesting. It does seem that the Elta 2052 AESA will be used on the Mk1A, but Malaysia will want all Israeli equipment to be replaced with other kit. Uttam AESA is an option, but integration will cost money and whether it'll be ready in time for Malaysia isn't clear and there is the other issue that it isn't a radar in service with the IAF. So they'll sort of have to be the launch customer for it. The second item is the Elbit DASH HMDS. Integrating a new HMDS will also take time and increase the cost.  The third is the Litening LDP, which is very widely used with the Tejas Mk1 and will be standard equipment on the Mk1A too. Damocles will be an option, but again, integration will be required and it costs time and money.

My guess is that KAI FA-50 will be the favorite for the tender given their export record so far, but they too have an issue with the Israeli Elta 2032 on board. There is no plan to integrate a new AESA radar on the FA-50 and as of now, it also lacks a few other things like LDP or a good BVRAAM. Sniper targeting pod is supposed to be integrated with the FA-50 Block 10 and AMRAAM capability by Block 20, but that upgrade is some ways away.

Gripen C/D which may be on offer will be more capable, but costlier and for an Air Force that is as budget conscious as the RMAF, it will stretch the budget a lot.

Of the lot of jets that are being included in the RMAF tender, the Gripen and the Tejas Mk1A are the most capable, with the JF-17 Block 3 and then FA-50 behind these two. the rest are just souped up AJTs like the M-346FA, Yak-130, L-15 and the L-39NG.

 

 

 

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LCA Navy Mk1 prototype conducted it's first night arrested landing at INS Hansa. Video in the link below

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The question of Israeli sourced equipment on the Tejas Mk1A is interesting. It does seem that the Elta 2052 AESA will be used on the Mk1A, but Malaysia will want all Israeli equipment to be replaced with other kit. Uttam AESA is an option, but integration will cost money and whether it'll be ready in time for Malaysia isn't clear and there is the other issue that it isn't a radar in service with the IAF. So they'll sort of have to be the launch customer for it. The second item is the Elbit DASH HMDS. Integrating a new HMDS will also take time and increase the cost.  The third is the Litening LDP, which is very widely used with the Tejas Mk1 and will be standard equipment on the Mk1A too. Damocles will be an option, but again, integration will be required and it costs time and money.

This reduces the chances of a deal from very bad to infinitesimally small IMO.  Waste of time and money quoting unless HAL wants to gain experience practising how to process an export inquiry.

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Yeah, but the KAI FA-50 also has the same issue, with the Elta 2032.

HAL already has its hands full with the existing orders that it needs to supply to the IAF.  There are 123 Mk1 and Mk1A fighters that need to be delivered to the IAF as soon as possible.

And the IAF would not be pleased that 36 Tejas fighters that it could induct would be going to an export customer instead, when they're trying to get HAL to scale up to 16 fighters (or 1 squadron) per year.

More detrimental is the political tension aspect. The GoI may no longer look at Malaysia as a "friendly" country to which to export a fighter that will be a mainstay IAF fighter for the coming 3 decades. Unless Mahathir Mohammed backtracks on his UN statement, I don't believe the GoI will want HAL to respond to the RFP.

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HAL already has its hands full with the existing orders that it needs to supply to the IAF.  There are 123 Mk1 and Mk1A fighters that need to be delivered to the IAF as soon as possible.

I have suggested for years that production capacity be increased to at least 20 pa. Has it reached the promised 16 a year yet? I don't mean is it about to reach 16, I mean has it? Promised schedules have meant very little where LCA  is concerned.

More detrimental is the political tension aspect. The GoI may no longer look at Malaysia as a "friendly" country to which to export a fighter that will be a mainstay IAF fighter for the coming 3 decades. Unless Mahathir Mohammed backtracks on his UN statement, I don't believe the GoI will want HAL to respond to the RFP.

Based on historic performance, failing to respond will probably save all concerned a lot of headaches.

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HAL has mentioned that the capacity will be increased to even higher than 16 per year. It is being done, but not yet there. Supposedly, as the private sector began supplying the entire front, mid and aft fuselage modules, the primary task for HAL was final integration and flight checks. That is how HAL plans to scale up to nearly 24 fighters per year.

That same assembly line will be used to produce 83 Mk1As and then nearly 200 Medium Weight Fighter (MWF) Tejas Mk2. So even 24 per year would be economical. And with the Navy pushing for a Naval Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter design based on the N-LCA Mk2, even 24 will not be enough in the second half of the 2020s.

HAL has to scale up now. They're even offering the IAF a 'LCA SPORT' LIFT version of the LCA twin seater. If the IAF goes for that, there'll be a glut of orders like never imagined.

The red tapism in the MoD is truly frustrating. The Tejas Mk1A order not being signed despite 2 years of negotiations over specifications and haggling over costs shows how dysfunctional the procurement system is, given how badly the IAF needs those 4 squadrons of Mk1A jets.

 

 

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The red tapism in the MoD is truly frustrating.

Expensive, too.

The Tejas Mk1A order not being signed despite 2 years of negotiations over specifications and haggling over costs shows how dysfunctional the procurement system is, given how badly the IAF needs those 4 squadrons of Mk1A jets.

I may be wrong but my guess is that LCA delays will result in a further Rafale order.  Given the circumstances (IAF being in dire need of fighters due to India's inability to organise LCA procurement), it is a seller's market and Dassault will be able to exact a high price. Incompetence can be a very costly luxury.

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the Tejas Mk1A order is to be signed before March 2020. No way a new Rafale order will emerge anytime soon because of any delays to this Mk1A contract.

As it is the IAF's new Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria stated that no follow-on off the shelf order for more Rafale fighters was being discussed. the IAF is hoping to see movement on the 114 MRCA deal, and has orders for 18 Su-30MKI and possibly 22 MiG-29s to add 2 more squadrons.

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No way a new Rafale order will emerge anytime soon because of any delays to this Mk1A contract.

Hope you are right and I am wrong. Time will tell. In any event it is not just the multi-year delay in LCA deliveries which has brought IAF fighter levels to a critical low. How long did the MRCA/MMRCA fiasco last, delaying the induction of 6 or so fighter squadrons by many years?

the IAF is hoping to see movement on the 114 MRCA deal,

To be realistic, when would the first be delivered - 5? 6? 6+ years from now? I am aware that it could be done more quickly but chances are it won't be, will it? When has anything been done quickly involving fast jet production in India?

Of course the additional line mentioned with a capacity of 4 frames a year could have been implemented and 2 seat Tejas production undertaken there, allowing production of an extra squadron's worth of FOC Tejas to follow on from the current batch.  Sadly I fear it would have been asking too much to expect those running things to think about things in a mildly organised fashion.

More Sukhois/Rafales stll needed, it seems to me. Call it a risk reduction move.

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The fact is that the new Air Chief Marshal is a former LCA test pilot and a very respected officer who will drive the IAF towards indigenisation. He recently flew in the HAL HTT-40 basic trainer, becoming the first IAF ACM to fly a prototype. And it is clear that the HTT-40 is going to join service, and there'll be no more Pilatus PC-7 Mk2 bought.

The commitment to the Medium Weight Fighter Tejas Mk2 is real and ADA already has begun metal cutting  on a prototype that is supposed to fly in 2021-22. If the project is managed properly, we could see it being inducted in 2026-27, given the Tejas Mk1 experience. Much earlier than then, the production at HAL should be humming (as it is now with ALH which is churned out pretty fast), giving the IAF the fastest and most economical way to achieve squadron numbers. 

The 114 MRCA hasn't even been accorded an Acceptance of Necessity, which would lead to an RFP in 6 months, so I would say that is still some ways away.