LCA Tejas and derivatives news and discussion (reincarnated)

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13 years 3 months

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Article on the LCA SPORT (Supersonic Omni-role Trainer) in a Brazilian publication


link to the article

KEY SPORT CHARACTERISTICS

HAL's Supersonic Omni Role Trainer Aircraft (SPORT) based on the two-seat LCA will enable training in the following areas:

1. Combat Training Dedicated to Large Force Engagement Groups
2. Tactical and Operational Level Concepts and Training Net Centric Warfare (NCW)
3. Shooting Control Radar (FCR) Concepts and Operations Training
4. IRST Search and Tracking Concepts and Operations Training
5. Helmet Mounted Display System (HMDS) Concepts and Operations Training
6. Dedicated BVR Combat Training
7. Dedicated EW (Electronic Warfare) Concepts and Training
8. Laser Environment Concepts and Laser Designator (LDP) Pod Training
9. Exposure to air-to-air missile launch (BVR and CCM)
10. Exposure to ALCM, ASM release
11. PGM launch practice (with and without target designation by parent aircraft)

Jaguar MAX and SPORT will use common subsystems such as avionics, LRUs, etc. developed for them specifically.

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15 years 8 months

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I get the idea of advanced training using an aircraft with lower CPFH than Rafale. Would there be any difference between the Sport and the Tejas apart from the Sport being marketed as a trainer?

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24 years 2 months

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I get the idea of advanced training using an aircraft with lower CPFH than Rafale. Would there be any difference between the Sport and the Tejas apart from the Sport being marketed as a trainer?

I would estimate there would be: 1) a generation difference in computing power and software, 2) significant increase in complexity for cockpit controls and displays, and 3) a significant upgrade to electrical power and cooling to run the new computers and displays. It will likely be a great technical challenge to get all that into LCA's small airframe. One potential solution would be to make the new capabilities modular by using interchangeable pylon-mounted pods. For example, if the mission requires directing drone wingmen, then the drone control pod would be mounted.

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The displays are different for the proposed SPORT Trainer than the current Tejas trainer, which is identical to the single seater Tejas Mk1. I imagine that for the Tejas Mk1A and possibly even the Tejas Mk2/MWF, there will be no separate dedicated trainer, but rather the SPORT will be offered, with customizable cockpit controls and displays that reflect what is seen on those types.

But in all other respects, the SPORT is meant to be a combat capable supersonic twin seater, just like the Tejas trainer is a fully combat capable supersonic trainer. The primary goal is to set up a fleet of these trainers that take over the tasks of introducing rookie pilots to complex new technologies and their basic tactical usage, before they are sent to squadrons.

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12 years 3 months

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But wouldn't they be MkI, helping IAF to divest the first gen of LCA?

I don't see why yet nobody has ordered that plane. It's probably a bargain. What the price increase from a Mk21?

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I guess the LCA SPORT will feature the AESA radar that will be used on the Tejas Mk1A. Anyway, the plan is to upgrade the 40 Tejas Mk1 jets with the same AESA radar as the Mk1A for fleet commonality at a later date as part of a MLU.

The Mk1A is going to be priced at around $35-$40 million or so, as per some of the latest reports that indicated that HAL would be reducing the price after the MoD and IAF refused to go ahead on the earlier price quotes.

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8 years 1 month

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Pylon mounted MAWS actively being sought for the Tejas Mk1A.

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13 years 3 months

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Very interesting. Do you have any more details on that? DARE had been working on pylon mounted dual color MAWS for the Su-30 so it could be a possible variant for use on the Tejas Mk1A.

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That would be waster of Pylon , For aircraft like Su-30 with more space they need to integrate 360 Degree MAWS inside aircraft something Malysia has done with Su-30MKM and Russia with Su-35.

For Tejas too they can integrate it inside why waste a pylon

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24 years 2 months

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Which system are you going to eliminate so the MAWS can go inside? the radar? mission computer? display computer?

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

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13 years 3 months

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That would be waster of Pylon , For aircraft like Su-30 with more space they need to integrate 360 Degree MAWS inside aircraft something Malysia has done with Su-30MKM and Russia with Su-35.

For Tejas too they can integrate it inside why waste a pylon

Read it carefully. Its 'pylon mounted' meaning that it will be integrated to a pylon. It doesn't mean that an entire pylon will be dedicated for a MAWS! And it is almost 360 deg even when mounted on the pylon. The bubble that each pylon mounted sensor views is only going to mask the area of the wing right behind the sensor.

Terma had a similar solution for F-16 pylon mounted MAWS


The MWS installation, which comprises a total of six sensors and one processor, offers a major modification to the F-16 self-protection suite to easily detect and decoy attacking missiles.

While the processor is installed in the right-hand pylon, three sensors are integrated in both the left-hand and right-hand pylon to deliver nearly full spherical coverage.

Terma pylon mounted MAWS brochure


Missile Warning for Belgian F-16

Similar indigenous DARE solution

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13 years 3 months

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Which system are you going to eliminate so the MAWS can go inside? the radar? mission computer? display computer?

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

I don't get you..why would any of those system need to be eliminated to accommodate a pylon mounted MAWS? Its a proven solution on F-16s (PIDS+) and the F-16 didn't lose its radar, mission computer or display computer as a result.

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24 years 2 months

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My response was to Austin's desire to mount MAWS internally on a jet which is already densely packaged. I too believe pylon mounting is a good solution . And the pylons can support towed decoys too.

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13 years 3 months

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In other news, the final price negotiations for the 73 Tejas Mk1A single seat fighters and 10 Tejas Mk1 trainers is almost complete with the unit price having being decided. The support package cost remains the only issue still being negotiated. Contract with HAL should hopefully be signed by MoD by year end.

Apparently, the Tejas Mk1A will cost $40 million per unit. Support package cost will be additional. Pretty good for an AESA radar equipped 4th gen light fighter. The total will be much lower than the benchmarked price if the unit price is $40 million. 73 Tejas Mk1As at $40 million works out to $2.92 billion and the 10 Tejas trainers may be slightly cheaper if they keep the same configuration as the current Tejas trainer with the existing Elta 2032 radar instead of whatever AESA radar is selected for the Mk1A.

Even with the same price, the price for 83 should be $3.32 billion. Add 50% of that cost for a support package and it works out to $4.98 billion..make it ~$5 billion.

link to article


"The pricing for 83 LCAs was finalised on September 3 in a meeting chaired by the Secretary Defence Production. Talks are now on for the pricing of the support package. Contracts for the LCAs and 15 Light Combat Helicopters (LCHs) will be signed in 3-to-4 months' time," Apurva Chandra, Director-General (Acquisition) in the Ministry of Defence declared at an international seminar on 'Energising Indian Aerospace Industry: Flight Plan for the Future'.

Orders for the LCAs and LCHs will go the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, which is controlled directly by the Ministry of Defence.

The procurement of 83 LCA Mk 1A fighters has been pending since an approval in November 2016 of the benchmarked price of 50,025 Crore ($7 Billion). The unit price is reported to have been negotiated around $40 Million.

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My response was to Austin's desire to mount MAWS internally on a jet which is already densely packaged. I too believe pylon mounting is a good solution . And the pylons can support towed decoys too.

Oh ok..I thought your reply was to my post. Yeah, the LCA especially is so small a jet and so densely packed, that there is barely any space to add any additional equipment on board the fuselage. It already has resulted in no space being available for an internally mounted SPJ. Consequently on the Mk1A, a dual pylon is being designed to allow for 2 BVRAAMs or CCMs to be carried and 1 pylon to be a dedicated SPJ pylon, like in the pic below

https://i0.wp.com/delhidefencereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/word-image-40.png?fit=847%2C350

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Yes, 40m$ is obviously a good price.
To put that in perspective, this is less than half the price asked for a EuroCanard, half the price of a massively produced F_35, 20 to 50% less that a T-50 or FA-50 and only 10m$ more than a M-345 light Training jet.
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15 years 8 months

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Apparently, the Tejas Mk1A will cost $40 million per unit.

Unparalleled I think, for an AESA-equipped light fighter. If only it were not so late and a higher production rate had been organised (not the case hence IAF needs all output), HAL could start building an export market. All the same if Unknownstan or Whereveria were in the market for a handful, would be worth HAL diverting a small number to the export market to get export sales support sorted.

What's the market? Any country still flying MiG-21, Mirage and derivatives, F5 Tiger etc. Say 100-250 in the next decade? Get Kaveri to work (really work) and India could be a real player in the light fighter business.

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HAL actually wanted a lot more per fighter. But agreed to the deal under a bit of arm-twisting by the government and lack of other work/major contracts.

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First arrested landing for Naval LCA

link

It has also put India on the world map as a nation with the capability to design a deck-landing aircraft.

According to sources, NP-1 (Naval Prototype), a trainer, did the first arrested landing at the shore-based test facility (SBTF) situated at INS Hansa in Goa. The SBTF replicates a static model of the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) being built at the Cochin Shipyard in Kerala.

“Today’s milestone comes after several years of flight testing and four campaigns of dedicated testing at SBTF. It was a text-book landing,” says an official who was part of the Goa campaign. The NP-1 was piloted by Cmde J A Maolankar (Chief Test Pilot) with assistance from Capt Shivnath Dahiya (Landing Safety Officer) and Cdr J D Raturi (Test Director). “The arrested landing heralds the arrival of true indigenous capability and displays the professional prowess of our scientific community. Aeronautical Development Agency, along with design, build capabilities of HAL, DRDO and CSIR labs have played a big role in executing today’s landmark event,” says an official.

Sources confirm that the landing speed of NP-1 was at 132 knots and the sink rate at 4.4 m/s while the arrester hook load was about 37 tonnes. The arrestor hook and other systems were developed by Aircraft Research and Design Centre (ARDC), a division of HAL. “All systems performed as expected during the arrested landing," says an official.

..

I hope the Indian Navy goes on to place an order for some twin seat LCA Navy Mk1 fighters to be used as trainers. Can be embarked on INS Vikramaditya and also shore based at INS Hansa, allowing rookie Navy pilots to train and master the skill of landing on an aircraft carrier. Will have a much lower operating cost than twin seat MiG-29KUB or Rafale/Super Hornet which may be chosen next.

This will also help to speed up the development and testing of these technologies and techniques for the LCA Navy Mk2, which is currently in development.

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LCA Navy Mk1 prototype NP-1 achieved the first arrested recovery ever. The first for an indigenous Indian airplane. Joining a select group of nations that have done it with their own naval fighter designs- US, Russia, France and the UK. I don't count China in this since the J-15 is a reverse engineered Su-33.

Image credits to their respective owners.

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEW3pteUYAEJNvw?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEV8l7aUYAA4KJ_.jpg