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By: - 12th March 2005 at 19:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Cool news: :p
That is actually the first time I hear about the Russian AESA..
By: - 12th March 2005 at 19:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In his interview with Airfleet, he also mentions,
- Processors with a throughput of 11 billion calculations per second for the ground test model and 50 billion calcs/sec for the flight test model
- Certain development by 2006, but nothing this year. Maybe a mockup at MAKS.
- Have manufactured and tested 5 new T/R modules, with manufacture of 1000+ modules for the antenna array.
- Initial invested to increase stability and reliability of components
- NIIP subcontracting antenna assemblies to Phazotron
By: - 13th March 2005 at 03:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So this new APAR goes on the RAC Mig Light fighter? No T-50/MKI/MKK apps?
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By: - 13th March 2005 at 08:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So this new APAR goes on the RAC Mig Light fighter? No T-50/MKI/MKK apps?
Isn't India stuck with the N-011M Bars radar? The Indian media says that the Su-30MKI contract is a deep license that includes manufacturing a fixed number of N-011M Bars radars and AL-31FP engines in India. So isn't India stuck with the N-011M Bars radar and AL-31FP engine?
If India wants to upgrade to better radars and engines, wouldn't Russia charge India even more money in addition to what India is paying for the existing deep license?
By: - 13th March 2005 at 08:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So this new APAR goes on the RAC Mig Light fighter? No T-50/MKI/MKK apps?
It is meant for the T-50, it has to be miniaturized further for the MiG for which work is in progress. This is the one meant for the T-50
The array with a diameter of 700 mm has already been launched into mass production,"
and the work in progress for MiG lite
Fazotron-NIIR actively works on developing the future active phased array radar to be mounted on the light fighter, being developed by MiG,"
Isn't India stuck with the N-011M Bars radar? The Indian media says that the Su-30MKI contract is a deep license that includes manufacturing a fixed number of N-011M Bars radars and AL-31FP engines in India. So isn't India stuck with the N-011M Bars radar and AL-31FP engine?
I have no idea about the APAR, but the Mk-3 version of the MKI will upgrade to AL-37 FU engines. And these engines would also be fitted onto the older versions.
By: - 14th March 2005 at 01:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Isn't India stuck with the N-011M Bars radar? The Indian media says that the Su-30MKI contract is a deep license that includes manufacturing a fixed number of N-011M Bars radars and AL-31FP engines in India. So isn't India stuck with the N-011M Bars radar and AL-31FP engine...... wouldn't Russia charge India even more money in addition to what India is paying for the existing deep license?
Me thinks...All the deep license stuff is good for the next 5-7 years at best, after that the N-011M will be quite jaded (there is only so much you can upgrade your MC/DSP/RDP etc) and they WILL be working on 'reworking' the contract to accomodate whatever NIIP can come up with and what DRDO can bring to the table. Indian AESA (with some form of 64 bit Core Avoinic Computer) in the next 10 years is not so unthinkable given the work done by CABS/LRDE on the LCA MMR and AEW, so it by 2012 there will be much discussion about whats good for the 'last few batches of the MKI'.
All this assumes that PAK-FA will still be a pipe dream in 2012...if that is in flight testing by then, then perhaps an ageing N011M on the last MKI will be acceptable in anticipation of the PAK-FA. But then what goes on the LCA goes on the MKI=what goes on the PAK-FA goes on the MKI too ...who knows...but N011M is PAR is certainly not the end of the story.
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By: - 19th March 2005 at 06:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Me thinks...All the deep license stuff is good for the next 5-7 years at best, after that the N-011M will be quite jaded (there is only so much you can upgrade your MC/DSP/RDP etc) and they WILL be working on 'reworking' the contract to accomodate whatever NIIP can come up with and what DRDO can bring to the table. Indian AESA (with some form of 64 bit Core Avoinic Computer) in the next 10 years is not so unthinkable given the work done by CABS/LRDE on the LCA MMR and AEW, so it by 2012 there will be much discussion about whats good for the 'last few batches of the MKI'.All this assumes that PAK-FA will still be a pipe dream in 2012...if that is in flight testing by then, then perhaps an ageing N011M on the last MKI will be acceptable in anticipation of the PAK-FA. But then what goes on the LCA goes on the MKI=what goes on the PAK-FA goes on the MKI too ...who knows...but N011M is PAR is certainly not the end of the story.
But Russia will probably ask for extra money for upgrading the Su-30MKI with new radars and more powerful engines. Having paid a considerable sum for the N-011M Bars and the AL-31FP, will India discard them after only 7 years?
By: - 19th March 2005 at 19:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It's not about discard etc... It does'nt work that way when you think of upgradation.. remember that MKI production line will go till 2017... and I don't think that IAF will jump for AESA as soon it's ready completely.. Major upgrades to MKI would start around 2015-2020 period.. in my un-educated opinion..
By: - 19th March 2005 at 20:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think its too early to speculate what IAF will do or wont do. I am not sure if all $4.2 B has been paid out upfront, but if its been then there will be some madrassa mathematics involved in adjusting the value of the current and future upgrades (one good indicator of this will be how the future of the 18 Su-30Ks are handled). If Indians start making noise about their own AESA, then I am sure the Russians will be more than willing to work out a deal...as is usually the case. But all this also depends on how well the future version of the Bars integrate with IAF's pet network centric concept with its upcoming Phalcons etc.
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By: - 20th March 2005 at 01:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Oh great, another thread turned into a thread about India.
Let's keep discussion centered on the new Russia AESA please. I for one am very interested in this. Post more information if there is any. Who was it that claimed that Russia was incapable of building an AESA radar because they didn't have the foundries to produce the T/R modules?
By: - 20th April 2005 at 19:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Who was it that claimed that Russia was incapable of building an AESA radar because they didn't have the foundries to produce the T/R modules?
whoelse other than one among the many anti-Russians over here.
So this new APAR goes on the RAC Mig Light fighter? No T-50/MKI/MKK apps?
it can go both way. for the RAC-MiGs LFI and the Sukhois T-50. There shudn't be any no probs abt that.
Isn't India stuck with the N-011M Bars radar? The Indian media says that the Su-30MKI contract is a deep license that includes manufacturing a fixed number of N-011M Bars radars and AL-31FP engines in India. So isn't India stuck with the N-011M Bars radar and AL-31FP engine?
tks for ur deep concern abt India's security and probably u r among the handful of person on this board who is concerned abt India's security, with others being in the naval section targetting Gorshkov for its inefficiency, for the task that the IN has been entrusted with. But u need to rest ur worries as both (Bars & AL-31) are going to settle in India and in the time to come will mature and integrate according to needs of the time. So maybe u'll see an AESA variant of Bars and an AL-31XX with 41,000 lbs thrust, in the future.
If India wants to upgrade to better radars and engines, wouldn't Russia charge India even more money in addition to what India is paying for the existing deep license?
now, if we are to pull out the Indian copycat media, the sums wont look large enough. But then for the media, only the amount paid to Russia looks large enough and not that go to western direction. A good example and an avoidable additional amount (as u say for 5-7yrs) was the recent contract for upgradation of IN's SHARS with the Elta radar and Derby AAMs. When there was a bulk order going into the MiG-21bis, the natural solution wud have been going in for the Kopyo and the already in service R-77, but as u see, the Isreali connection and their hold in India and her defence establishment made sure that we went in for a new set of systems, which i think was not warrented.
Harry,
Have manufactured and tested 5 new T/R modules, with manufacture of 1000+ modules for the antenna array.
it must be the test sample of these t/r modules, but what does that mean??? ..... only 5 t/r modules have been manufactured (ok) and is it that modules are of the same or 5 different types ?
BTW, can some one give more info abt the t/r modules, as to how many kinds of them are there etc etc ......
here is one dia of the t/r array, hopefully some can explain it better and t/r modules in general. ....... not abt that, they are seperate sub-arry for transmitting RF while the recieving sub-array can recive multiple RF signals. I want something different and wider abt the arrays and the module.
tks in advance
By: - 21st April 2005 at 02:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A good example and an avoidable additional amount (as u say for 5-7yrs) was the recent contract for upgradation of IN's SHARS with the Elta radar and Derby AAMs. When there was a bulk order going into the MiG-21bis, the natural solution wud have been going in for the Kopyo and the already in service R-77,
To my understanding the R-77/Kopyo solution was considered and rejected . one of the reason given was that the R-77 was heavy for the SHARS outer pylon , Also remember that Naval jags are being equipped with E/L-2032 radar , so commanality within the fleet could also be one of the consideration.
Also the derby can act both as WVR/BVRAAM with LOBL/LOAL capability.
Perhaps Harry could throw more light on the facts.
By: - 21st April 2005 at 15:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wow - I'm even more out of touch than I thought I was (pretty impressive considerring how out of touch I thought I was). Am I really the only one who didn't know that MiG was still developing a light fighter? This is the first I've heard of it for years - can somebody fill me in please.
By: - 21st April 2005 at 17:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
To my understanding the R-77/Kopyo solution was considered and rejected . one of the reason given was that the R-77 was heavy for the SHARS outer pylon , Also remember that Naval jags are being equipped with E/L-2032 radar , so commanality within the fleet could also be one of the consideration.Also the derby can act both as WVR/BVRAAM with LOBL/LOAL capability.
Perhaps Harry could throw more light on the facts.
The R-77 too heavy / Mica too expensive story first appeared in Flight International, several years ago. In reality, there should be no weight issues associated with the R-77.
The EL/M-2032 should outperform the Kopyo, come readily integrated with the Derby and share heavy commonality with the EL/M-2022A. In view of the original Kopyos delivered with a 11 hrs MTBF before being sent back, the Navy is probably not too keen on that set.
IAF Jaguar-IMs have already been equipped with the EL/M-2032 for a while and are now getting the SAR/ISAR upgrade.
By: - 21st April 2005 at 18:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
IAF Jaguar-IMs have already been equipped with the EL/M-2032 for a while and are now getting the SAR/ISAR upgrade.
Thanks Harry for the update , So technically the Jags-IM should be capable of firing the Derby , Also are there any plans for Jags-IM as well as the SHAR being equipped with the Russian KH-35 , I remember reading few years back that the Sea Eagle were on their way out. Any updates on those front.
Sorry wrong thread but couldnt resist asking :diablo:
By: - 22nd April 2005 at 10:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Jai - clearly some news I had missed.
By: - 23rd April 2005 at 00:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Harry for the update , So technically the Jags-IM should be capable of firing the Derby , Also are there any plans for Jags-IM as well as the SHAR being equipped with the Russian KH-35 , I remember reading few years back that the Sea Eagle were on their way out. Any updates on those front.Sorry wrong thread but couldnt resist asking :diablo:
The antenna aperture of the EL/M-2032 in the Jaguar-IM's nose cone is too small to offer any real utilisation for long range BVR engagement, so the Derby can't be used to it's full potential.
There are no Kh-35s now and the Sea Eagle will stay for a long while. The first Kh-35s will only arrive with the MiG-29K.
By: - 23rd April 2005 at 20:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Austin,
as Harry mentioned, the weight was not a problem, but I agree with u that commanality was the isue that made it happen. But the R-77 also have got LOBL/LOAL and the capablity of WVR combat , its control surfaces are meant exactly for that and is probebly the only missile with capablity for 12g manuvering targets. Whats the case with Debry btw??
Harry,
when did the EL/M-2032 get into the Jags?? and that 11 hrs MTBO for the early Kopoyo is damn worse..... whats the case with the one thats currently installed. Also can u give the figures of the EL/M-2032??
But still I'm not convincied that it was the best option, and Kopoyo/R-77 wud have been better.
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By: Pit - 12th March 2005 at 13:47
Cool news: :p