By: Blue Apple
- 16th November 2017 at 08:41Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
UAE's Mirage 2000 are mostly used in an AtG role in Yemen. They've repeatedly asked for opening of extra hardpoints and integration of AASM but Dassault has always said no as the AASM is only for Rafale (or Mirage F1 if you're Marocco...). For that kind of money, I don't see anything more than new weapons/pods and the usual radar, comm & EW software upgrades.
If AASM integration is indeed on the table, that would point to an order for the Rafale really soon. The much more expensive F-16 upgrade could then be seen as compensation for not ordering the F-35 (yet).
Or maybe it's the opposite. With the UAE, you new know...
By: eagle
- 16th November 2017 at 12:58Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is it correct that AASM does not fit on M2000 rear fuselage pylons? Apparently it's too long wth the nose getting in the way of the main gear.
If so, integrating AASM plus additional pylons would result in a load out of 3 weapons. If you want to carry a targeting pod of course. Adding something like LJDAM would be interesting, 5 weapons tops.
By: halloweene
- 16th November 2017 at 14:02Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Probably not 60 planes. UAE acquired a first patch of M2000 than modernized them in 2000-9 whiel acquiring new 2000-9. The latter may be the only ones modernized i guess.
By: swerve
- 16th November 2017 at 15:17Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The first batch (36) were delivered from 1989, so are coming up to 30 years old. 30 of them were later upgraded to Mirage 2000-9 standard, & 32 new -9 bought, delivered from 2003.
$350 mn allows maybe $12 mn for each of the second batch.
MBDA is now pushing its new SmartGlider weapons for export outside Europe. Up to six of the smallest model (120kg, >100km range) can be carried on one hardpoint - 12 to 18 on one M2000.
By: a89
- 16th November 2017 at 15:47Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The first batch (36) were delivered from 1989, so are coming up to 30 years old. 30 of them were later upgraded to Mirage 2000-9 standard, & 32 new -9 bought, delivered from 2003.
$350 mn allows maybe $12 mn for each of the second batch.
That was my impression but I guess it will also depend on the number of hours of the frames.
By: wilhelm
- 16th November 2017 at 15:54Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why?
The UAE have already had Denels Umbani integrated recently on their Mirage 2000's, and have bought into the programme and will produce components as the Al-Tariq.
Denel had by mid 2017 already delivered a mix of about 600-700 full and partial systems.
The Umbani has 3 configurations, allowing ranges of between 40km to 200km.
While its years-long search for a future fighter continues, the United Arab Emirates has revealed a plan to modernise its in-service fleet of French-supplied combat aircraft.
During the Dubai air show on 14 November, Dassault confirmed that the UAE's armed forces "have announced their intention to sign a contract for the upgrade of their Mirage 2000-9 fleet."
The company declines to provide further information, but says it "welcomes this decision, and is grateful to the UAE authorities for their trust". It also points to the single-engined fighter's "high-quality participation in international coalition operations".
“The Mirage 2000-9 has proven through time it is one of the best aircraft there is in the operational field," the UAE defence ministry tells FlightGlobal. "The upgrade is to fulfill mission needs and requirements, which have changed based on what is going on in the [Middle East] area. It requires new technologies to be able to operate the aircraft.”
Avionics supplier Thales stands to benefit from the prospective contract, having supplied equipment including the Mirage 2000-9's radar, mission computer, electronic warfare systems, cockpit displays and helmet-mounted cueing technology.
Flight Fleets Analyzer shows the UAE air force has an active fleet of 55 Mirage 2000-9s, including 14 trainers, plus 10 earlier-generation Mirage 2000s. The assets are aged between 13 and 28 years.
The cost is not even half that of the IAF's Mirage-2000I/TI upgrade. Obviously, the Mirage-2000-9 standard already was one of the most advanced Mirages out there, whereas the IAF's Mirage-2000H/TH was mostly 1980s technology, so to bridge the technological gap between a 1980s variant to a more contemporary standard cost the IAF more, but if all 55 Mirage-2000-9s are being upgraded then it doesn't seem to be a very costly upgrade.
$350 MUSD for 55 units would give us only 6.5 MUSD per airplane. Maybe some avionics and structural upgrades for the fleet.
By: swerve
- 17th November 2017 at 23:31Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Which is why we're speculating about the possibility that the upgrade isn't for the whole fleet, but the second batch, those built new as 2000-9s, not the 1980s first batch of 2000EAD/RAD that have already been upgraded once, to 2000-9 standard
By: halloweene
- 18th November 2017 at 18:46Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm not zsure smartglider will be ready in a timely manner. And i'm not sure UAE would have the se of a networked "wolfpack" acting weapon... However, AASM could be a nice to have and has lon be discussed.... Don't know enough about -9 donfig to really discuss. The new small AESA proposed for Tejas Mark IA?
By: TomcatViP
- 19th November 2017 at 08:00Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why not an RBE-2 AESA derivative? A good point for Thales that could make a good use of the larger available volume or simply launch a straightforward conversion as you may know ;)
By: halloweene
- 19th November 2017 at 10:25Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This very specific test bench (DGA) mirage is not operational at all. Too many imbalances. The tejas proposed tailor made AESA for tejas is already a smaller RBE2 derivative.
By: TooCool_12f
- 20th November 2017 at 13:23Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
on the other hand, the back end seems to be pretty "plug an dplay", as they could switch antenna types (AESA - PESA) with no problem... but, since there's more space in the nose, and a bigger plate could be fit, one can wonder if they'll see it as being in their best interest to give a better radar (bigger antenna, more T/R modules, so more power and so on with the same back end) on a Mirage 2000 compared to the Rafale...
By: TomcatViP
- 20th November 2017 at 18:23Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
They should see the 2k as I do: a cheap Typhoon. Ideally they would have a more serious upgrades, obviously (including engine), but the Mirage can take most of the Typhoon mission at 75% the effectiveness. With an appropriate positioning on the market, they could have bracketed Eurofighter with the two products.
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By: Blue Apple - 16th November 2017 at 08:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
UAE's Mirage 2000 are mostly used in an AtG role in Yemen. They've repeatedly asked for opening of extra hardpoints and integration of AASM but Dassault has always said no as the AASM is only for Rafale (or Mirage F1 if you're Marocco...). For that kind of money, I don't see anything more than new weapons/pods and the usual radar, comm & EW software upgrades.
If AASM integration is indeed on the table, that would point to an order for the Rafale really soon. The much more expensive F-16 upgrade could then be seen as compensation for not ordering the F-35 (yet).
Or maybe it's the opposite. With the UAE, you new know...
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By: eagle - 16th November 2017 at 12:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is it correct that AASM does not fit on M2000 rear fuselage pylons? Apparently it's too long wth the nose getting in the way of the main gear.
If so, integrating AASM plus additional pylons would result in a load out of 3 weapons. If you want to carry a targeting pod of course. Adding something like LJDAM would be interesting, 5 weapons tops.
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By: halloweene - 16th November 2017 at 14:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Probably not 60 planes. UAE acquired a first patch of M2000 than modernized them in 2000-9 whiel acquiring new 2000-9. The latter may be the only ones modernized i guess.
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By: TomcatViP - 16th November 2017 at 15:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That would make room for a significant budget. I would guess something interesting is in the line for the 2k.
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By: swerve - 16th November 2017 at 15:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The first batch (36) were delivered from 1989, so are coming up to 30 years old. 30 of them were later upgraded to Mirage 2000-9 standard, & 32 new -9 bought, delivered from 2003.
$350 mn allows maybe $12 mn for each of the second batch.
MBDA is now pushing its new SmartGlider weapons for export outside Europe. Up to six of the smallest model (120kg, >100km range) can be carried on one hardpoint - 12 to 18 on one M2000.
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By: TomcatViP - 16th November 2017 at 15:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Perfect platform for this weapon once upgraded with new radar mode and pod
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By: a89 - 16th November 2017 at 15:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That was my impression but I guess it will also depend on the number of hours of the frames.
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By: wilhelm - 16th November 2017 at 15:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why?
The UAE have already had Denels Umbani integrated recently on their Mirage 2000's, and have bought into the programme and will produce components as the Al-Tariq.
Denel had by mid 2017 already delivered a mix of about 600-700 full and partial systems.
The Umbani has 3 configurations, allowing ranges of between 40km to 200km.
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By: TomcatViP - 16th November 2017 at 15:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What was the return from experience?
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By: BlackArcher - 17th November 2017 at 18:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Mirage upgrade to boost UAE's defences
The cost is not even half that of the IAF's Mirage-2000I/TI upgrade. Obviously, the Mirage-2000-9 standard already was one of the most advanced Mirages out there, whereas the IAF's Mirage-2000H/TH was mostly 1980s technology, so to bridge the technological gap between a 1980s variant to a more contemporary standard cost the IAF more, but if all 55 Mirage-2000-9s are being upgraded then it doesn't seem to be a very costly upgrade.
$350 MUSD for 55 units would give us only 6.5 MUSD per airplane. Maybe some avionics and structural upgrades for the fleet.
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By: swerve - 17th November 2017 at 23:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Which is why we're speculating about the possibility that the upgrade isn't for the whole fleet, but the second batch, those built new as 2000-9s, not the 1980s first batch of 2000EAD/RAD that have already been upgraded once, to 2000-9 standard
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By: halloweene - 18th November 2017 at 18:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm not zsure smartglider will be ready in a timely manner. And i'm not sure UAE would have the se of a networked "wolfpack" acting weapon... However, AASM could be a nice to have and has lon be discussed.... Don't know enough about -9 donfig to really discuss. The new small AESA proposed for Tejas Mark IA?
Posts: 5,905
By: TomcatViP - 19th November 2017 at 08:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why not an RBE-2 AESA derivative? A good point for Thales that could make a good use of the larger available volume or simply launch a straightforward conversion as you may know ;)
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By: halloweene - 19th November 2017 at 10:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This very specific test bench (DGA) mirage is not operational at all. Too many imbalances. The tejas proposed tailor made AESA for tejas is already a smaller RBE2 derivative.
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By: TomcatViP - 19th November 2017 at 17:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It's a test aircraft. I am reluctant to think that they had 350M$ available for the conversion! Obviously, an upgrade could correct this.
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By: TooCool_12f - 20th November 2017 at 13:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
on the other hand, the back end seems to be pretty "plug an dplay", as they could switch antenna types (AESA - PESA) with no problem... but, since there's more space in the nose, and a bigger plate could be fit, one can wonder if they'll see it as being in their best interest to give a better radar (bigger antenna, more T/R modules, so more power and so on with the same back end) on a Mirage 2000 compared to the Rafale...
Posts: 5,905
By: TomcatViP - 20th November 2017 at 18:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
They should see the 2k as I do: a cheap Typhoon. Ideally they would have a more serious upgrades, obviously (including engine), but the Mirage can take most of the Typhoon mission at 75% the effectiveness. With an appropriate positioning on the market, they could have bracketed Eurofighter with the two products.
A serious lack of foresight...
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By: halloweene - 21st November 2017 at 16:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The 'large nose on this mirage is a rafale nose.
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By: TomcatViP - 21st November 2017 at 16:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You're serious?
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By: halloweene - 22nd November 2017 at 20:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Take a look you will even see the fake OSF.